OASIS Mailing List ArchivesView the OASIS mailing list archive below
or browse/search using MarkMail.

 


Help: OASIS Mailing Lists Help | MarkMail Help

ws-rx message

[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]


Subject: [no subject]


=20

What would be so wrong for an RMD implementation to employ a standard
default value for IT for all of its inbound sequences and still allow
the RMS to express a different value for the IT (to be applied at RMD)
based on the particular needs of the AS.

=20

Thanks,

Sanjay

	=20

=09
________________________________


	From: Marc Goodner [mailto:mgoodner@microsoft.com]=20
	Sent: Thursday, Nov 03, 2005 9:38 AM
	To: Patil, Sanjay; Yalcinalp, Umit; Christopher B Ferris;
ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
	Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Proposal for i055

	I agree the IT applies to the RMD as Umit proposed in i054. I do
not agree that the RMS needs to align any internal value it has in a way
that needs to be communicated back to the RMD. If the RMS has an
internal value it needs to align with the RMD IT value it should do so
internally to itself. The RMD knows what resources it has to properly
set the IT value. The RMS does not need to ask for a different IT value
from the RMD, it can either work within the bounds of the one the RMD
provides or not.

	=20

	There probably is text in the spec that needs to be clarified
that the IT is set at the RMD. I don't agree that the parameter itself
needs to be changed to support any alignment of values with the RMS.

	=20

	=20

=09
________________________________


	From: Patil, Sanjay [mailto:sanjay.patil@sap.com]=20
	Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:32 AM
	To: Yalcinalp, Umit; Christopher B Ferris;
ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
	Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Proposal for i055

	=20

	The value of IT at the RMD would specify how long the RMD should
wait for the next reliable message (argh!) to show up before giving up
on an open sequence. Where as I believe it is the RMS who is in a better
position to specify the time interval between the different messages it
intends to send out. So although the IT parameter would apply to the
RMD, it makes sense to allow the RMS to ask for a particular value for
IT (to be used by the RMD), IMHO.

	=20

	Thanks,=20

	Sanjay

		=20

	=09
________________________________


		From: Yalcinalp, Umit [mailto:umit.yalcinalp@sap.com]=20
		Sent: Thursday, Nov 03, 2005 9:03 AM
		To: Christopher B Ferris; ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
		Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Proposal for i055

		Chris,=20

		=20

		I think you missed the point and I possibly did not
clearify it.=20

		=20

		We are proposing to include IT for RMD for Policy
Attachment.=20

		RMS may have its private IT, but what is specified and
applies to the endpoint applies to RMD.=20

		=20

		The interval definition we are proposing applies to RMD.


		This information may be used in a private or optimized
way by RMS, which is a separate decision.=20

		=20

		Hopefully, this email makes it clearer.=20

		=20

		--umit

		=20

			=20

		=09
________________________________


			From: Christopher B Ferris
[mailto:chrisfer@us.ibm.com]=20
			Sent: Thursday, Nov 03, 2005 8:54 AM
			To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
			Subject: Re: [ws-rx] Proposal for i055

		=09
			-1=20
		=09
			I don't see a need for the InactivityTimeout to
apply to the RMS. It is free to discard/terminate=20
			a Sequence whenever it wants to do so. I am
preparing an alternate resolution to i055, but=20
			we're still circling the wagons internally.=20
		=09
			Cheers,=20
		=09
			Christopher Ferris
			STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
			email: chrisfer@us.ibm.com
			blog:
http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
			phone: +1 508 377 9295=20
		=09
			"Yalcinalp, Umit" <umit.yalcinalp@sap.com> wrote
on 11/02/2005 04:48:57 PM:
		=09
			> Issue i055:=20
			> This proposal is to resolve i055[1] based on
the clarification that=20
			> we propose for resolution of Issue i054 [2].=20
			> We observe that although the InactivityTimeout
should be specified=20
			> by the RMD in the policy, it should be
possible for RMS to align its
			> own inactivity timeout with respect to RMDs
specification of the timeout.=20
			> In this regard, we propose to modify the
definition of=20
			> InactivityTimeout which is currently a single
value. Instead, we=20
			> propose that RMD should specify the
InactivityTimeout to be a range=20
			> of values, with a lower and upper bound as
well as a default value.=20
			> We think that this change will allow RMS to be
able to configure the
			> IT to be able to send messages in an
appropriate interval to the=20
			> RMD, still complying with the configuration of
the RMD. How this=20
			> particular configuration may be addressed will
be the subject of a=20
			> subsequent message as it is a separate issue
(i056 [3])=20
			> We propose to add the following two attributes
to the definition of=20
			> InactivityTimeout at Line 158 [4] and move the
specified value as=20
			> the content value of the element as follows:=20
			> Remove the lines 154-155 [4]=20
			> {=20
			>
/wsrmp:RMAssertion/wsrm:InactivityTimeout/@Milliseconds=20
			> The inactivity timeout duration, specified in
milliseconds.=20
			> }=20
			> Replace the lines 151-153 with=20
			> {/wsrmp:RMAssertion/wsrm:InactivityTimeout=20
			> A parameter that specifies a period of
inactivity for a Sequence. If
			> omitted, there is no=20
			> implied value. The value of the element
indicates the default=20
			> inactivity timeout duration in milliseconds.=20
			> }=20
			> Add the lines:=20
			>
{/wsrmp:RMAssertion/wsrm:InactivityTimeout/@minValue=20
			> A parameter that specifies a minimum value of
inactivity for a=20
			> Sequence. If omitted, there is no=20
			> implied value. This attribute is only present
when the @maxValue is present.=20
			>
/wsrmp:RMAssertion/wsrm:InactivityTimeout/@maxValue=20
			> A parameter that specifies a maximum value of
inactivity for a=20
			> Sequence. If omitted, there is no=20
			> implied value.=20
			> }=20
			> You probably noticed that we are also pointing
out a small=20
			> problem/anomaly in the specification, where
the values are specified
			> by attributes (i.e @Milliseconds attribute)
instead of element=20
			> content. We propose that the definition of the
InactivityTimeout to=20
			> be changed so that it should be using the
value of the element=20
			> instead of the attribute. Further, minValue
and maxValue attributes=20
			> are used to define a range.=20
			> If the TC wishes to retain the usage of
attribute values instead of=20
			> element content as proposed, it may be
retained along with minValue=20
			> and maxValue proposal we are making. However,
we really want to know
			> the rationale for which the values are
specified as attributes=20
			> instead of elements contrary to the general
practice used today with XML.=20
			>=20
			> Thanks.=20
			> --umit=20
			> [1]
http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/issues/ReliableMessagingIssues.xml#i055

			> [2]
http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/issues/ReliableMessagingIssues.xml#i054

			> [3]
http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/issues/ReliableMessagingIssues.xml#i056

			> [4]
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-rx/download.
			> php/14986/wsrmp-1.1-spec-wd-01.pdf=20
			>=20
			> ----------------------=20
			> Dr. Umit Yalcinalp=20
			> Standards Architect=20
			> NetWeaver Industry Standards=20
			> SAP Labs, LLC=20
			> umit.yalcinalp@sap.com=20
			> Tel: (650) 320-3095=20


------_=_NextPart_001_01C5E0A4.75DF601C
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" =
xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =
xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
xmlns:x=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" =
xmlns:p=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:powerpoint" =
xmlns:oa=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:activation" =
xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40";>

<head>
<meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
 namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
name=3D"PersonName"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
 /* Font Definitions */
 @font-face
	{font-family:Wingdings;
	panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
	{font-family:"MS Mincho";
	panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;}
@font-face
	{font-family:Tahoma;
	panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
	{font-family:"\@MS Mincho";
	panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;}
 /* Style Definitions */
 p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
	{margin:0in;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:12.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
	{color:blue;
	text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
	{color:purple;
	text-decoration:underline;}
tt
	{font-family:"Courier New";}
span.EmailStyle18
	{mso-style-type:personal;
	font-family:Arial;
	color:navy;}
span.EmailStyle19
	{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
	font-family:Arial;
	color:navy;}
@page Section1
	{size:8.5in 11.0in;
	margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
	{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
 <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
 <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
  <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
 </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>

<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Precisely,<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>There is nothing wrong with an
implementation default, but that default needs no expression on the wire =
or in
the protocol.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think it is presumptuous to =
assume the
usage of the specification in any particular client-server or peer-peer =
model.
&nbsp;For best utility, it ought to work well in either =
case.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Expiration of IT is not a nice =
thing, it
is an EXCEPTION.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>What we got then is a failure to
communicate </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DWingdings><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></fon=
t><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>As a consumer I prefer free drinks, =
but
Mama-san is not about to give me one.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>-bob<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in =
0in 4.0pt'>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
Patil, Sanjay
[mailto:sanjay.patil@sap.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, November =
04, 2005
3:12 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Marc Goodner; =
Yalcinalp, Umit;
<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Christopher B Ferris</st1:PersonName>; =
<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [ws-rx] =
Proposal for
i055</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>&gt;&gt; </span></font><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>If the RMS has an internal value it needs to align with the =
RMD IT
value it should do so internally to itself.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>That is a very provider centric =
model,
which makes sense to me in general (for example, we don't want to allow =
a
consumer to arbitrarily negotiate the provider WSDL at large!). But =
should we bar
the consumer from expressing its preferences in all =
circumstances?&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>From a techinal standpoint, I think =
of
relialbe messaging as more of&nbsp;a peer-to-peer model (as opposed to a
strictly almighty-provider-and-a-meeek-consumer model). We should =
consider
allowing exchange of policy preferences between the RMS and RMD, =
specifically
when our protocol has a well defined place (create sequence message =
exchange)
for making such bargains. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>What would be so wrong for an RMD
implementation to employ a standard default value for IT for all =
of&nbsp;its
inbound sequences and still allow the RMS to express a different value =
for the
IT (to be applied at RMD) based on the particular needs of the =
AS.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Thanks,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Sanjay<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt;
margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Marc
Goodner [mailto:mgoodner@microsoft.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, Nov 03, =
2005 9:38
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Patil, Sanjay; =
Yalcinalp,
Umit; <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Christopher B Ferris</st1:PersonName>; =
<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [ws-rx] =
Proposal for
i055</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I agree the IT applies to the RMD =
as Umit
proposed in i054. I do not agree that the RMS needs to align any =
internal value
it has in a way that needs to be communicated back to the RMD. If the =
RMS has
an internal value it needs to align with the RMD IT value it should do =
so
internally to itself. The RMD knows what resources it has to properly =
set the
IT value. The RMS does not need to ask for a different IT value from the =
RMD,
it can either work within the bounds of the one the RMD provides or =
not.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>There probably is text in the spec =
that
needs to be clarified that the IT is set at the RMD. I don&#8217;t agree =
that
the parameter itself needs to be changed to support any alignment of =
values
with the RMS.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
Patil, Sanjay
[mailto:sanjay.patil@sap.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, November =
03, 2005
9:32 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Yalcinalp, Umit; =
<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Christopher B Ferris</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [ws-rx] =
Proposal for
i055</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The value of IT at&nbsp;the RMD =
would
specify how long the RMD should wait for the next reliable message =
(argh!) to
show up before giving up on an open&nbsp;sequence. Where as I believe it =
is the
RMS who is in a better position to specify the time interval =
between&nbsp;the
different messages it intends to send out. So although the IT parameter =
would
apply to the RMD, it makes sense to allow the RMS to ask for a =
particular value
for IT (to be used&nbsp;by the RMD), IMHO.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Thanks, =
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Sanjay</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
Yalcinalp, Umit [mailto:umit.yalcinalp@sap.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, Nov 03, =
2005 9:03
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">Christopher
 B Ferris</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [ws-rx] =
Proposal for
i055</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Chris, =
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I think you missed the point and I
possibly did not clearify it. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>We are proposing to include IT for =
RMD for
Policy Attachment. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>RMS may have its private IT, but =
what is
specified and applies to the endpoint applies to RMD. =
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The interval definition we are =
proposing
applies to RMD. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>This information may be used in a =
private
or optimized way by RMS, which is a separate decision. =
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Hopefully, this email makes it =
clearer. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>--umit</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Christopher B Ferris</st1:PersonName> =
[mailto:chrisfer@us.ibm.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, Nov 03, =
2005 8:54
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [ws-rx] =
Proposal for
i055</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>-1</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I
don't see a need for the InactivityTimeout to apply to the RMS. It is =
free to
discard/terminate</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a
Sequence whenever it wants to do so. I am preparing an alternate =
resolution to i055,
but </span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>we're
still circling the wagons internally.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Cheers,</span></font>
<br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Christopher
Ferris<br>
STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture<br>
email: chrisfer@us.ibm.com<br>
blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html<br>
phone: +1 508 377 9295</span></font> <br>
<br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&quot;Yalcinalp,
Umit&quot; &lt;umit.yalcinalp@sap.com&gt; wrote on 11/02/2005 04:48:57 =
PM:</span></font></tt><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; Issue i055: =
</font></tt></span></font><br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; This
proposal is to resolve i055[1] based on the clarification that =
</span></font></tt><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; we propose for resolution of Issue =
i054 [2]. </font></tt></span></font><br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; We
observe that although the InactivityTimeout should be specified =
</span></font></tt><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; by the RMD in the policy, it should =
be
possible for RMS to align its</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; own inactivity timeout with respect =
to RMDs
specification of the timeout. </font></tt></span></font><br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; In this
regard, we propose to modify the definition of </span></font></tt><font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; InactivityTimeout which is currently =
a single
value. Instead, we </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; propose that RMD should specify the
InactivityTimeout to be a range </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; of values, with a lower and upper =
bound as
well as a default value. </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; We think that this change will allow =
RMS to
be able to configure the</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; IT to be able to send messages in an
appropriate interval to the </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; RMD, still complying with the =
configuration
of the RMD. How this </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; particular configuration may be =
addressed
will be the subject of a </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; subsequent message as it is a =
separate issue
(i056 [3])</font></tt></span></font> <br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; We propose
to add the following two attributes to the definition of =
</span></font></tt><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; InactivityTimeout at Line 158 [4] =
and move
the specified value as </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; the content value of the element as =
follows:</font></tt></span></font>
<br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Remove
the lines 154-155 [4] </span></font></tt><br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; { </span></font></tt><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; =
/wsrmp:RMAssertion/wsrm:InactivityTimeout/@Milliseconds
</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; The inactivity timeout duration, =
specified in
milliseconds. </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; } </font></tt></span></font><br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Replace
the lines 151-153 with </span></font></tt><br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;
{/wsrmp:RMAssertion/wsrm:InactivityTimeout </span></font></tt><font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; A parameter that specifies a period =
of
inactivity for a Sequence. If</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; omitted, there is no =
</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; implied value. The value of the =
element
indicates the default </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; inactivity timeout duration in =
milliseconds. </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; } </font></tt></span></font><br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Add the
lines: </span></font></tt><br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;
{/wsrmp:RMAssertion/wsrm:InactivityTimeout/@minValue =
</span></font></tt><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; A parameter that specifies a minimum =
value of
inactivity for a </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; Sequence. If omitted, there is no =
</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; implied value. This attribute is =
only present
when the @maxValue is present. </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt;
/wsrmp:RMAssertion/wsrm:InactivityTimeout/@maxValue </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; A parameter that specifies a maximum =
value of
inactivity for a </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; Sequence. If omitted, there is no =
</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; implied value. </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; } </font></tt></span></font><br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; You
probably noticed that we are also pointing out a small =
</span></font></tt><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; problem/anomaly in the =
specification, where
the values are specified</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; by attributes (i.e @Milliseconds =
attribute)
instead of element </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; content. We propose that the =
definition of
the InactivityTimeout to </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; be changed so that it should be =
using the
value of the element </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; instead of the attribute. Further, =
minValue
and maxValue attributes </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; are used to define a range. =
</font></tt></span></font><br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; If the
TC wishes to retain the usage of attribute values instead of =
</span></font></tt><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; element content as proposed, it may =
be
retained along with minValue </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; and maxValue proposal we are making. =
However,
we really want to know</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; the rationale for which the values =
are
specified as attributes </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; instead of elements contrary to the =
general
practice used today with XML. </font></tt></span></font><br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; </span></font></tt><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; Thanks. =
</font></tt></span></font><br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; --umit </span></font></tt><br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; [1]
http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/issues/ReliableMessagingIssues.xml#i055 =
</span></font></tt><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; [2]
http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/issues/ReliableMessagingIssues.xml#i054 =
</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; [3]
http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/issues/ReliableMessagingIssues.xml#i056 =
</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; [4]
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-rx/download.</font></tt><=
br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; php/14986/wsrmp-1.1-spec-wd-01.pdf =
</font></tt></span></font><br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; </span></font></tt><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; ---------------------- =
</font></tt></span></font><br>
<tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Dr.
Umit Yalcinalp </span></font></tt><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; Standards Architect </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; NetWeaver Industry Standards =
</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; SAP Labs, LLC </font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; umit.yalcinalp@sap.com =
</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face=3D"Courier New">&gt; Tel: (650) 320-3095 =
</font></tt></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</div>

</div>

</body>

</html>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C5E0A4.75DF601C--


[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]