RE: Issue 125: Protocol precondition requires knowledge of policies

["Marc Goodner" <mgoodner@microsoft.com>]

How is removing this text helpful? I don't think relying on faults is
better than satisfying this precondition. 

I disagree with your justification of why the text is problematic.
Whether or not RM is on seems like a policy of the endpoint one would
want to be aware of. It does not matter whether that knowledge comes
through WS-RMPolicy or out of band knowledge of what is in place at the
endpoint. One would also think you would want to know other policies in
place at the endpoint to properly formulate you messages, again whether
or not this was through WS-Policy or out of band knowledge. So I don't
see this text as limited to just the RM assertion.

Marc Goodner
Technical Diplomat
Microsoft Corporation
Tel: (425) 703-1903
Blog: http://spaces.msn.com/mrgoodner/ 


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Fremantle [mailto:paul@wso2.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:06 PM
To: Marc Goodner
Cc: wsrx
Subject: Re: Issue 125: Protocol precondition requires knowledge of
policies

Marc

 The protocol clearly defines faults that are used if you have the wrong
choice of RM enabled or not.
If the RMS tries to initiate a Sequence with an endpoint that doesn't
support it there will be a fault (either CSRefused or a generic fault). 
If the RMS doesn't create a Sequence then we have the RMRequired fault.

It is possible to read this text in a good light. But I don't think its
very clear. I'd be very happy to see some better words in there, but I
would prefer no words to the ones there currently.

Paul

Marc Goodner wrote:
> Paul, I don't understand on why you want this text removed. Don't you 
> need to know that the destination supports RM? Are you not planning on

> learning this at a minimum out of band before sending CS messages to
it?
> Or are you planning on using faults to determine if a destination 
> supports RM or not?
>
> The last is about the only way that I could see this not being a valid

> precondition.
>
> Marc Goodner
> Technical Diplomat
> Microsoft Corporation
> Tel: (425) 703-1903
> Blog: http://spaces.msn.com/mrgoodner/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Fremantle [mailto:paul@wso2.com]
> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:30 AM
> To: wsrx
> Subject: [ws-rx] NEW ISSUE: Protocol precondition requires knowledge 
> of policies
>
> Title: The protocol preconditions require knowledge of policies
>
> Description: From WD13 section 2.2 and lines 177-178 it says:
>
> The RM Source MUST have knowledge of the destination's policies, if 
> any, and the RM Source MUST be capable of formulating messages that 
> adhere to this policy.
>
> Justification: Since the only assertion that we make currently is that

> RM is on, this seems extraneous. Furthermore the spec is more useful 
> if it does not presuppose knowledge of policy to make it work.
>
> Proposal: Delete lines 177 and 178.
>
> Paul
>
>   

-- 

Paul Fremantle
VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair

http://feeds.feedburner.com/bloglines/pzf
paul@wso2.com

"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com