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Subject: Re: [ws-rx] i093 cardinality replacements


I have an alternate proposal:

Replace the offending parts with assertions that do not contain any 2119 
key words --
The cardinality of this [element|attribute] is [zero or more|one or 
more|exactly one].

-Anish
--

Marc Goodner wrote:
> Yes, I thought about the two instances you cite here as well. I'm fine
> with either alternative you propose here. I share your concern over the
> second MUST, a SHOULD would probably be safer there.
> 
> Marc Goodner
> Technical Diplomat
> Microsoft Corporation
> Tel: (425) 703-1903
> Blog: http://spaces.msn.com/mrgoodner/ 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug.Bunting@Sun.COM [mailto:Doug.Bunting@Sun.COM] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 12:04 PM
> To: Doug Bunting
> Cc: Marc Goodner; Gilbert Pilz; ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [ws-rx] i093 cardinality replacements
> 
> Marc,
> 
> I have looked at the PDF files and think all of the suggestions you make
> are positive. The document has MUST requirements (on the RMS) for most
> of the affected elements and attributes in any case.
> 
> The only exception's are /wsrm:CreateSequence/wsrm:Offer/wsrm:Endpoint
> (lines 251-254 without change bars, lines 293-296 with) and
> /wsrm:CreateSequenceResponse/wsrm:Accept/wsrm:AcksTo (lines 324-328 w/o
> change bars, lines 366-370 w/). I somewhat prefer being prescriptive but
> can live with your proposed
> 
>     This element, of type wsa:EndpointReferenceType (as specified by
>     WS-Addressing [WS-Addressing]), specifies the endpoint reference to
>     which <wsrm:SequenceAcknowledgement> messages related to the
>     accepted Sequence are to be sent.
> 
> as all we say (taking the second example). One alternative would be
> 
>     An RM Source MUST include this element, of type
>     wsa:EndpointReferenceType (as specified by WS-Addressing
>     [WS-Addressing]). The RM Destination MUST send
>     <wsrm:SequenceAcknowledgement> messages related to the accepted
>     Sequence to the specified endpoint reference.
> 
> I'm not sure about the second MUST (might be SHOULD or even MAY since I
> seem to remember a per-acknowledgement override somewhere). That's
> secondary since my main reason for making the change was to avoid the
> round-about passive voice of the original.
> 
> thanx,
> doug
> 
> On 25/05/06 11:34, Doug Bunting wrote:
> 
>>Marc,
>>
>>This seems reasonable to me though I haven't opened up the document 
>>again and looked at all of the sentences you reference (will soon).
>>Thanks for proposing a compromise you can live with.
>>
>>One question: Should the predication you describe be mentioned early 
>>in the document to avoid making assumptions about our readers?
>>
>>thanx,
>>doug
>>
>>On 25/05/06 11:20, Marc Goodner wrote:
>>
>>>I'm working through this again and it is really number 3 below that I
> 
> 
>>>dislike.
>>>I think we've let cardinality angle of this take us away from the
> 
> point.
> 
>>>I think the meaning of the current text is clear despite what a very 
>>>strict reading may say. I don't find it confusing at all to 
>>>understand that any statements about what is required are predicated 
>>>on the optional element that contains the element or attribute being
> 
> described.
> 
>>>It is the new sentence that is introduced here that attempts to 
>>>restate that the containing optional element is present that I find
> 
> unnecessary.
> 
>>>
>>>In every case in this revision to the doc I'm fine with the changes 
>>>for this issue if the sentence introduced as describe in 3 below were
> 
> 
>>>struck.
>>>
>>>Here is one example, being the first instance of this.
>>>
>>>Original text:
>>>/wsrm:CreateSequence/wsrm:Offer/wsrm:Identifier
>>>This REQUIRED element MUST contain an absolute URI conformant with
>>>RFC3986 [URI] that uniquely identifies the offered Sequence.
>>>
>>>Current proposed text:
>>>/wsrm:CreateSequence/wsrm:Offer/wsrm:Identifier
>>>An RM Source that includes a <wsrm:Offer> element within a 
>>>CreateSequence message MUST include this element as a child of the 
>>><wsrm:Offer> element. This RM Source MUST set the value of this 
>>>element to an absolute URI (conformant with RFC3986 [URI]) that will 
>>>uniquely identify the offered Sequence.
>>>
>>>Alternate proposed text:
>>>/wsrm:CreateSequence/wsrm:Offer/wsrm:Identifier
>>>This RM Source MUST set the value of this element to an absolute URI 
>>>(conformant with
>>>RFC3986 [URI]) that will uniquely identify the offered Sequence.
>>>
>>>
>>>I suggest that we accept the changes proposed in message 117 from 
>>>this month [1] with the following exceptions (line numbers from 
>>>change bar
>>>version): Strike sentence introduced on line 285 ending on line 286.
>>>Strike sentence introduced on line 293 ending on line 294.
>>>Strike sentence introduced on line 366 ending on line 367.
>>>Strike sentence introduced on line 652 ending on line 654.
>>>Strike sentence introduced on line 658 ending on line 660.
>>>
>>>
>>>1 Message 117 " i093 edits - preview"
>>>http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ws-rx/200605/msg00117.html
>>>
>>>Marc Goodner
>>>Technical Diplomat
>>>Microsoft Corporation
>>>Tel: (425) 703-1903
>>>Blog: http://spaces.msn.com/mrgoodner/
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Gilbert Pilz [mailto:Gilbert.Pilz@bea.com] Sent: Thursday, May 
>>>18, 2006 5:02 PM
>>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>Subject: [ws-rx] i093 cardinality replacements
>>>
>>>As of WD-12 our spec has a number of explanations of sub-elements 
>>>with the following pattern:
>>>
>>>/wsrm:Foo/wsrm:Baz
>>>This [REQUIRED | OPTIONAL] element . .
>>>There are actually a number of different cases under which this 
>>>pattern is used.
>>>
>>>1) Describing a singly-nested sub-element within a message element.
>>>Example: /wsrm:CreateSequence/wsrm:AcksTo
>>>
>>>2) Describing a singly-nested sub-element within a header element.
>>>Example: /wsrm:AckRequested/wsrm:Identifier
>>>
>>>3) Describing a doubly-nested sub-element within a top-level message 
>>>element when the parent element is optional. Example:
>>>/wsrm:CreateSequence/wsrm:Offer/wsrm:Identifier
>>>
>>>There are other cases like doubly-nested attributes within top-level 
>>>header elements who's parent elements are optional, etc. but you get 
>>>the point.
>>>
>>>
>>>I have used the following patterns to address these cases:
>>>
>>>1) The RM [Source | Destination] [MUST | MAY] include this element in
> 
> 
>>>any Foo message it sends.
>>>
>>>(Note the use of the informal "Foo message" as shorthand for "SOAP 
>>>envelope that includes the <wsrm:Foo> element in the body of that
>>>envelope")
>>>
>>>2) An RM [Source | Destination] that includes a <wsrm:Foo> header 
>>>block in a SOAP envelope [MUST | MAY] include this element in that 
>>>header block.
>>>
>>>3) An RM [Source | Destination] that includes a <wsrm:Baz> element 
>>>within a Foo message [MUST | MAY] include this element as a child of 
>>>the <wsrm:Baz> element.
>>>
>>>If anyone in the group has any suggestions on some better phrasing 
>>>for these patterns I would be more than happy to hear them.
>>>
>>>Also, with respect to the idea that the current cardinality 
>>>statements are somehow clear to the reader, take a second look at the
> 
> 
>>>example for case (3):
>>>
>>>/wsrm:CreateSequence/wsrm:Offer/wsrm:Identifier
>>>This REQUIRED element MUST contain an absolute URI conformant with
>>>RFC3986 [URI] that uniquely identifies the offered Sequence.
>>>
>>>What it *means* is that if you include an Offer in your 
>>>CreateSequence then you MUST include the Identifier in that Offer but
> 
> 
>>>all it *says* is "This REQUIRED element . . ." This doesn't seem very
> 
> clear to me at all.
> 
>>>- gp


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