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Subject: Re: [ws-rx] Issue 28: MakeConnection preconditions are unclear



The only ambiguity is in the MC+SeqID and MSFT proposals - those make some
undocumented assumptions about when MC will or will not be used based on the
presence of the WSA Anon URI.  Which are all valid uses even when MC will not be
used - hence the ambiguity.  MC+RManonURI is the only proposal that very clearly
allows the client to signal to the server that if the messages destined for that EPR are
not sent on the current backchannel then the client will poll for it.  If the client had no
intention of using MC then it wouldn't have used the RManonURI.  Very clear IMO.

thanks
-Doug

__________________________________________________
STSM | Web Services Architect | IBM Software Group
(919) 254-6905 | IBM T/L 444-6906 | dug@us.ibm.com



Paul Fremantle <paul@wso2.com>

11/15/2006 03:02 AM

To
Gilbert Pilz <Gilbert.Pilz@bea.com>
cc
Doug Davis/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS, Marc Goodner <mgoodner@microsoft.com>, Jonathan Marsh <jonathan@wso2.com>, ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject
Re: [ws-rx] Issue 28: MakeConnection preconditions are unclear





Gil

I also share your unease. I also am uneasy about saying that MC is
always on. There is a different security model implicit in supporting
MC. I don't want some random person polling for messages and reading
them. Therefore I believe that the server ought to be able to clearly
know if a client is going to use MC or not, and potentially refuse an
offer or not send a CS based on that. I still think that your last case
is a pretty clear indication but as the spec doesn't state this I think
we have a problem.

Paul

Gilbert Pilz wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Here's a CreateSequence with a non-Anon AcksTo and an Anon Offer/Endpoint.
>
>     <wsrm:CreateSequence>
>       <wsrm:AcksTo>
>  
> <wsa:Address>http://192.168.0.102:9090/axis/services/RMService</wsa:Address>
>       </wsrm:AcksTo>
>       <wsrm:Offer>
>  
> <wsrm:Identifier>uuid:2901b650-5952-11db-b92b-881536e8c557</wsrm:Identifier>
>         <wsrm:Endpoint>
>  
> <wsa:Address>http://www.w3.org/2005/08/addressing/anonymous</wsa:Address>
>         <wsrm:Endpoint>
>       </wsrm:Offer>
>     </wsrm:CreateSequence>
>
> If I'm an RMD and I receive one of these (and I accept the Offer) should I
> assume that MC(SequenceID) is going to be used? I would think so, but the
> spec doesn't say one way or another.
>
> Here's a CreateSequence with an Anon AcksTo and a non-Anon Offer/Endpoint.
>
>     <wsrm:CreateSequence>
>       <wsrm:AcksTo>
>  
> <wsa:Address>http://www.w3.org/2005/08/addressing/anonymous</wsa:Address>
>       </wsrm:AcksTo>
>       <wsrm:Offer>
>  
> <wsrm:Identifier>uuid:2901b650-5952-11db-b92b-881536e8c557</wsrm:Identifier>
>         <wsrm:Endpoint>
>  
> <wsa:Address>http://192.168.0.102:9090/axis/services/RMService</wsa:Address>
>         <wsrm:Endpoint>
>       </wsrm:Offer>
>     </wsrm:CreateSequence>
>
> Sould an RMD assume that MC(SequenceID) is going to be used? I would think
> not, since you should be able to piggy-back Acks on the HTTP response
> channel but, again, the spec isn't clear.
>
> Here's a CreateSequence with both an Anon AcksTo and an Anon Offer/Endpoint
>
>     (... you get the point ...)
>
> It seems pretty clear that, if an RMD gets one of these (and accepts the
> Offer), that MC(SequenceID) will need to be used but . . .
>
> In any case I'm pretty uncomfortable with the idea of deriving the RMS and
> RMD's expected behavior from the combination of values of various elements
> of the CreateSequence element. Even the MakeConnection(RM-Anon) rule of "if
> you see a .../ws-rx/wsrm/200608/anonymous?id={uuid} as the value of any
> wsa:Address element in CS you should expect that MC will be used" makes me a
> little uneasy.
>
> - gp
>
>  
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Paul Fremantle [mailto:paul@wso2.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:27 AM
>> To: Paul Fremantle
>> Cc: Doug Davis; Marc Goodner; Jonathan Marsh;
>> ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Subject: Re: [ws-rx] Issue 28: MakeConnection preconditions
>> are unclear
>>
>> Actually I think in addition the CS/Offer/Endpoint should be
>> anonymous for the precondition.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Paul Fremantle wrote:
>>    
>>> I believe that with MC(SequenceID) I think there is a clear
>>> preconditiion, which is CS+Offer+Anonymous-Acks-To.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Doug Davis wrote:
>>>      
>>>> Sorry, not true. MSFT's proposal does not address any
>>>>        
>> preconditions
>>    
>>>> since the ability to support MC should be known before the CS is
>>>> sent, not after. Sending a MCRefued in response to a MC is
>>>>        
>> too late
>>    
>>>> in the game. No matter which version of MC lives on I think some
>>>> policy assertion will be needed so the server-side can
>>>>        
>> advertise that
>>    
>>>> it will support MC, or not. I was assuming we could use
>>>>        
>> this issue to
>>    
>>>> add that.
>>>>
>>>> As for Jonathan's text about either side needing to be in
>>>>        
>> possession
>>    
>>>> of the RManonURI - short answer is 'no' - only the minter (client)
>>>> needs to know what the value is.
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>> -Doug
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> STSM | Web Services Architect | IBM Software Group
>>>> (919) 254-6905 | IBM T/L 444-6906 | dug@us.ibm.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Marc Goodner <mgoodner@microsoft.com>*
>>>>
>>>> 11/14/2006 11:34 AM
>>>>
>>>>    
>>>> To
>>>>     Marc Goodner <mgoodner@microsoft.com>, Jonathan Marsh
>>>> <jonathan@wso2.com>, "ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org"
>>>> <ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>>> cc
>>>>    
>>>> Subject
>>>>     RE: [ws-rx] Issue 28: MakeConnection preconditions are unclear
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the proposal we made for PR001 I don't believe the below is an
>>>> issue. The expected setup for MakeConection is defined.
>>>>
>>>> I agree that if we close PR001 with no action that the
>>>>        
>> current spec
>>    
>>>> will need to be changed to address this problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Jonathan Marsh [mailto:jonathan@wso2.com] *
>>>> Sent:* Monday, November 06, 2006 9:46 AM*
>>>> To:* ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org*
>>>> Subject:* [ws-rx] New issue: MakeConnection preconditions
>>>>        
>> are unclear
>>    
>>>> MakeConnection as defined today relies on the RM Anonymous URI
>>>> template. The spec does not adequately specify the preconditions
>>>> necessary for the exchange to be successful.
>>>>
>>>> Prior to a MakeConnection message, do both the client and
>>>>        
>> the server
>>    
>>>> have to be in possession of a correctly constructed
>>>>        
>> instance of the
>>    
>>>> RM anon URI template? Of an EPR using this template? The example
>>>> messages invent a subscription operation in step 1, which
>>>>        
>> indicates
>>    
>>>> that the precise URI and the intent to enable
>>>>        
>> MakeConnection must be
>>    
>>>> negotiated between the RMD and RMS out of band, yet
>>>>        
>> nowhere are these
>>    
>>>> preconditions enumerated. The RM protocol preconditions
>>>>        
>> only list an
>>    
>>>> EPR as a precondition, not the precise form of that EPR, and any
>>>> intention that buffering of messages should be engaged.
>>>>        
>> What happens
>>    
>>>> if a client does a MakeConnection without all preconditions being
>>>> satisfied also appears to be underspecified.
>>>>
>>>> *Jonathan Marsh* - _http://www.wso2.com_ <http://www.wso2.com/> -
>>>> _http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com_
>>>> <http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com/>
>>>>
>>>>        
>> --
>> Paul Fremantle
>> VP/Technology and Partnerships, WSO2
>> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>>
>> http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle
>> paul@wso2.com
>> (646) 290 8050
>>
>> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>>
>>
>>
>>    

--
Paul Fremantle
VP/Technology and Partnerships, WSO2
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair

http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle
paul@wso2.com
(646) 290 8050

"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com





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