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Subject: RE: FW: [Fwd: Re: [ws-rx] Potentially cancelling next conference call]


Hi Paul,

  Yes - as long as there have been two meetings held within 60 days since a
member lost their voting rights, and (obviously) they didn't attend those
meetings, they are not subject to this clause.

Regards,

Mary

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Fremantle [mailto:paul@wso2.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 1:36 PM
> To: mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org
> Cc: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: FW: [Fwd: Re: [ws-rx] Potentially cancelling next conference
> call]
> 
> Mary
> 
> Just to clarify. This only affects Members who have lost their rights at
> then end of either of the two meetings this year, since any one who lost
> their rights at previous meetings would be covered by the meetings we've
> had since then.
> 
> Based on this (and my examination of the attendance table) there is only
> one member who will gain voting rights if cancel next weeks meeting.
> 
> Doug,
> 
> I'm happy to hold the meeting - at this rate there won't be any business
> except the roll-call, and approval of minutes. Thoughts?
> 
> Paul
> 
> Mary McRae wrote:
> > Yes. I don't know how that plays into your plans for your next meeting,
> but if
> > most of the Members haven't attended in quite some time it shouldn't have
> much
> > of an impact on roster management.
> >
> > Mary
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Paul Fremantle [mailto:paul@wso2.com]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:26 PM
> >> To: mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org
> >> Cc: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
> >> Subject: Re: FW: [Fwd: Re: [ws-rx] Potentially cancelling next
> conference
> >> call]
> >>
> >> So in essence ONLY members who *recently* lost their voting status
> >> regain it.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Paul
> >>
> >> Mary McRae wrote:
> >>> ... copying my response to Paul to the TC list.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Mary
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Mary McRae [mailto:mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org]
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:15 PM
> >>> To: 'Paul Fremantle'; 'tc-admin@oasis-open.org'
> >>> Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [ws-rx] Potentially cancelling next conference
> >> call]
> >>> Hi Paul,
> >>>
> >>>  Let me try to illustrate how this works. First, what you have
> identified
> >> as [2]
> >>> below doesn't apply since your TC *does* hold Meetings. Only [1] is
> >> relevant.
> >>> What the rule says is "... or, if less than two Meetings are called
> >> <<<within 60
> >>> days after the loss of such rights>>> ..."
> >>>
> >>> Note that it does not say "if the TC holds less than two Meetings
> within
> >> 60
> >>> days" -- it's 60 days from the date which the Member lost voting
> rights.
> >>>
> >>> This is best described in table format and you need to know when each
> >> Member
> >>> lost their voting rights. If two meetings were held within a 60-day
> >> period after
> >>> they lost their voting rights, and they failed to attend them, then
> they
> >> remain
> >>> Members. If, however, two meetings were *not* held within the 60-day
> >> period
> >>> following their loss of voting rights, they automatically regain them.
> >>>
> >>> You have 51 Members. I'm going to try a couple of examples. (By going
> to
> >> Meeting
> >>> Attendance I can see who attended what meetings - thankfully you use
> the
> >> Kavi
> >>> roster!)
> >>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-
> >> rx/members/attendance.php?page=0
> >>>
> >>> Top of the list:
> >>> Charlton Barreto (Adobe)
> >>> Assuming that he was a voting member on 11-29-2007, he then missed two
> >> meetings
> >>> in a row (1-17-2008 and 2-14-2008). That means at the end of the
> meeting
> >> on 14
> >>> Feb he lost voting rights. One meeting was held on 28 Feb 2008;
> Charlton
> >> did not
> >>> attend. If another meeting is not held prior to 14 April, there will
> not
> >> have
> >>> been 2 meetings within 60 days of his losing voting rights and he
> should
> >> be
> >>> changed to Voting Member on 14 April.
> >>>
> >>> Let's take Marc Goodner (Microsoft) next.
> >>> He either was a Voting Member or gained voting rights at the end of the
> >> meeting
> >>> on 17 Jan. He then missed the next two meetings, which means he lost
> his
> >> voting
> >>> rights at the end of the meeting on 28 Feb. If two meetings aren't held
> >> between
> >>> 29 Feb and 29 April, he will automatically regain Voting Rights on 29
> >> April.
> >>> Anyone who lost their voting rights prior to the 14 Feb meeting
> wouldn't
> >> be
> >>> under consideration since two meetings were held within 60 days
> following
> >> their
> >>> loss of voting rights.
> >>>
> >>> Hopefully that makes sense; let me know if you have further questions!
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Mary
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Paul Fremantle [mailto:paul@wso2.com]
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 4:44 PM
> >>>> To: tc-admin@oasis-open.org
> >>>> Subject: [Fwd: Re: [ws-rx] Potentially cancelling next conference
> call]
> >>>>
> >>>> Mary
> >>>>
> >>>> Any chance of some clarification. Our concern is that we do not wish
> to
> >>>> have suddenly a large number of voting members who don't turn up and
> >>>> therefore mess up our quorum. (We have a lot of inactive members)
> >>>>
> >>>> Paul
> >>>>
> >>>> -------- Original Message --------
> >>>> Subject: Re: [ws-rx] Potentially cancelling next conference call
> >>>> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:05:16 +0000
> >>>> From: Paul Fremantle <paul@wso2.com>
> >>>> To: Doug Bunting (WSSP) <Douglas.R.Bunting@microsoft.com>
> >>>> CC: wsrx <ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >>>> References: <47DFA99D.3080400@wso2.com>
> >>>> <C14A40B34FCAA7499C1BFD4617B5D055325594F223@NA-EXMSG-
> >>>> C112.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
> >>>>
> >>>> Doug
> >>>>
> >>>> Actually thats an interesting question. I had assumed that since there
> >>>> were 56 days between the two meetings that counted as "2 meetings in
> 60
> >>>> days". However, the OASIS procedures text is pretty complex to
> >> understand.
> >>>> It says:
> >>>> "[1] A TC Member who has lost his or her voting rights shall regain
> them
> >>>> for a TC that holds Meetings by attending two consecutive Meetings (as
> >>>> recorded in the minutes), thus regaining voting rights after the end
> of
> >>>> the second Meeting attended or, if less than two Meetings are called
> >>>> within 60 days after the loss of such rights, at the close of that
> 60th
> >>>> day. [2] A Member of a TC that does not hold Meetings may regain
> voting
> >>>> rights by making a request to the chair(s) to regain them, effective
> at
> >>>> the close of the 60th day after the request."
> >>>>
> >>>> (my numbers in brackets)
> >>>>
> >>>> So [1] seems to contradict what I was thinking: it seems to imply that
> >>>> we have to have two meetings within 60 days of the last meeting (i.e.
> 3
> >>>> meetings in 61 days).
> >>>>
> >>>> However, [2] implies that this doesn't happen automatically. The
> members
> >>>> only get voting rights IF they apply to the chair. So I would assert
> >>>> that we only need to hold the meetings in case we get a mass
> application
> >>>> for voting rights from non-voters.
> >>>>
> >>>> As an aside, I believe that OASIS have worded this incorrectly.
> Imagine
> >>>> I am member X who lost voting rights last year. Now I want them back.
> I
> >>>> apply to the chair, and either there are two meeting I can attend, or
> I
> >>>> get them on the 60th day. Right? Well that's obviously the intent. But
> >>>> [1] says "if less than two Meetings are called within 60 days after
> the
> >>>> loss of such rights". So "the loss of such rights" happened to member
> X
> >>>> last year. And last year we continuously had meetings. Its only this
> >>>> year we are being slack. So [1] doesn't apply to member X.
> >>>>
> >>>> Paul
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Doug Bunting (WSSP) wrote:
> >>>>> Paul,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As discussed during our last call, don't we need /2/ meetings in 60
> >> days
> >>>> to avoid problems with quorum at the following meeting?
> >>>>> thanx,
> >>>>>       doug
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Paul Fremantle [mailto:paul@wso2.com]
> >>>>> Sent: March-18-08 04:38
> >>>>> To: wsrx
> >>>>> Subject: [ws-rx] Potentially cancelling next conference call
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Folks
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't see any reason to hold this coming conference call. If we
> >> cancel
> >>>>> this one, the next call still lies within the 60 days mandated by the
> >>>>> OASIS rules.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If there are no suggestions of business for the meeting, or other
> >>>>> objections, by the end of Thursday I will cancel.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks
> >>>>> Paul
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Paul Fremantle
> >>>>> CTO and Co-Founder, WSO2
> >>>>> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
> >>>>> VP, Apache Synapse
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Office: +44 844 484 8143
> >>>>> Cell: +44 798 447 4618
> >>>>>
> >>>>> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> >>>>> paul@wso2.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
> >>>>> generates this mail.  You may a link to this group and all your TCs
> in
> >>>> OASIS
> >>>>> at:
> >>>>> https://www.oasis-
> open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
> >>>>> generates this mail.  You may a link to this group and all your TCs
> in
> >>>> OASIS
> >>>>> at:
> >>>>> https://www.oasis-
> open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Paul Fremantle
> >>>> CTO and Co-Founder, WSO2
> >>>> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
> >>>> VP, Apache Synapse
> >>>>
> >>>> Office: +44 844 484 8143
> >>>> Cell: +44 798 447 4618
> >>>>
> >>>> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> >>>> paul@wso2.com
> >>>>
> >>>> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
> >>>> generates this mail.  You may a link to this group and all your TCs in
> >>>> OASIS
> >>>> at:
> >>>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Paul Fremantle
> >>>> CTO and Co-Founder, WSO2
> >>>> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
> >>>> VP, Apache Synapse
> >>>>
> >>>> Office: +44 844 484 8143
> >>>> Cell: +44 798 447 4618
> >>>>
> >>>> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> >>>> paul@wso2.com
> >>>>
> >>>> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
> >>> generates this mail.  You may a link to this group and all your TCs in
> >> OASIS
> >>> at:
> >>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> >>>
> >>>
> >> --
> >> Paul Fremantle
> >> CTO and Co-Founder, WSO2
> >> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
> >> VP, Apache Synapse
> >>
> >> Office: +44 844 484 8143
> >> Cell: +44 798 447 4618
> >>
> >> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> >> paul@wso2.com
> >>
> >> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
> >> generates this mail.  You may a link to this group and all your TCs in
> >> OASIS
> >> at:
> >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
> > generates this mail.  You may a link to this group and all your TCs in
> OASIS
> > at:
> > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> >
> >
> 
> --
> Paul Fremantle
> CTO and Co-Founder, WSO2
> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
> VP, Apache Synapse
> 
> Office: +44 844 484 8143
> Cell: +44 798 447 4618
> 
> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> paul@wso2.com
> 
> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com



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