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Subject: RE: [wsbpel] Input and Input/output


Prasad,
 
Thanks for the update.  Do you think WSDL 1.2 provide official SOAP bindings for all the MEPs that it includes or only for a subset?
 
Also, if there will be a last call in December for WSDL 1.2 perhaps we should defer those specific issues until we have something definite to work with?
 
Satish

________________________________

From: Prasad Yendluri [mailto:pyendluri@webmethods.com]
Sent: Sun 9/7/2003 9:49 AM
To: Satish Thatte; Wsbpel@Lists. Oasis-Open. Org (E-mail)
Cc: ygoland@bea.com; edwink@collaxa.com
Subject: Re: [wsbpel] Input and Input/output


Hi,

Couple points to keep in perspective here.

1. In WSDL 1.1, no bindings are specified for output (notification) and output-input (solicit-response) style operations. WSDL 1.1 only defines bindings for the one-way and request-response primitives.  It is expected that specifications that define the protocols for solicit-response or notification would also include WSDL binding extensions that allow use of these primitives. Hence if someone were to use notification or solicit-response patterns in their WSDL they also need to either come up with their own bindings are make use of existing ones defined by someone else. At this point there are no publicly known bindings for these patterns. Hence their use in BPEL with WSDL 1.1 is unlikely though still a potential scenario. 

2. WSDL 1.2 is has spent a lot of time on this issue and the new approach that uses MEPs identified several patterns that include initiating output messages going out  from a "Service". The latest draft of the WSDL 1.2 patterns document (dated 2003/09/04) is at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/wsdl12/wsdl12-patterns.xml. The WSDL 1.2 WG is going to decide very soon (perhaps next f2f later this month) which patterns would be included in the WSDL 1.2 spec but all the out first patterns, except the multicast solicit response are still very much in the game and even the multicast-solicit-response pattern that was dropped has received requests for reconsideration. 

WSDL 1.2 is shooting for a last call by December or so. Hence, this group IMO should plan on addressing the WSDL 1.2 aspects and more specifically the approach w.r.t. output, output-in patterns, more directly in the spec.

Regards, Prasad

-------- Original Message -------- 
Subject: 	RE: [wsbpel] Input and Input/output	
Date: 	Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:49:58 -0700	
From: 	Satish Thatte <satisht@microsoft.com> <mailto:satisht@microsoft.com> 	
To: 	<ygoland@bea.com> <mailto:ygoland@bea.com> , <edwink@collaxa.com> <mailto:edwink@collaxa.com> , "Wsbpel@Lists. Oasis-Open. Org \(E-mail\)" <mailto:Wsbpel@Lists.Oasis-Open.Org\(E-mail\)>  <wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org> <mailto:wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org> 	
It would be good to investigate where WSDL 1.2 is in this respect --
that would give us useful guidance in what we decide to do.

-----Original Message-----
From: Yaron Goland [mailto:ygoland@bea.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 11:19 AM
To: edwink@collaxa.com; 'Wsbpel@Lists. Oasis-Open. Org (E-mail)'
Subject: RE: [wsbpel] Input and Input/output

If someone where to feed a BPEL engine a BPEL process definition that
included a WSDL definition that included a output or output/input
operation the BPEL engine would reject the process.

The reason being, as you point out, that output and output/input aren't
needed by BPEL as they are handled implicitly by partnerLinkType in the
manner you describe.

However, the WSDL 1.1 standard does include output and output/input
operations and a user familiar with the standard would reasonably expect
that BPEL would support these operation types. Given that we do not
(which, btw, not only makes sense but also is consistent with industry practice)
it would seem reasonable to have some text in the standard which points the
situation out and explains it.

What I'm trying to figure out is if that language is already in the spec
or if we need to open an issue to have it added.

	Thanks,

		Yaron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edwin Khodabakchian [mailto:edwink@collaxa.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 8:50 AM
> To: ygoland@bea.com; 'Wsbpel@Lists. Oasis-Open. Org (E-mail)'
> Subject: RE: [wsbpel] Input and Input/output
>
>
> Hi Yaron,
>
> The formalism for output and output/input is based on
> partnerLinkTypes. A
> receive on a partnerLink is equivalent to the output operation.
> Receive/reply is equivalent to a output/input.
>
> This is an area that is not easy to learn so we should try to
> have only one formalism: output or partnerLinks.
>
> How is dynamic binding implemented using output? Meaning in
> the case of an output operation is the binding provided by 
> the service that performes the callback or the service that 
> provides the callback?
>
> Thank you,
> Edwin
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Yaron Goland [mailto:ygoland@bea.com]
> > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 8:39 AM
> > To: Wsbpel@Lists. Oasis-Open. Org (E-mail)
> > Subject: [wsbpel] Input and Input/output
> >
> > BPEL only supports input and input/output WSDL operations. It
> > does not support output and output/input. This makes sense as
> > the vast majority of Web Service stacks don't have support
> > for output and output/input either. However this is something
> > that needs to be expressed in the specification. I thought
> > text on the subject had been added to the spec but I just
> > looked for it and couldn't find it. Can anyone point me to
> > the text or do we need to open an issue?
> >
> > 	Thanks,
> > 		Yaron
> >



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