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Subject: Re: [wsbpel] RE: Issue - 77 - Motion to require access to values notdefined in portType



I wholeheartedly support Satish's position!

Regards,
Frank

-------------------
Prof. Dr. Frank Leymann, Distinguished Engineer
IBM Software Group
Member, IBM Academy of Technology

Phone 1:  +49-7031-16 39 98
Phone 2:  +49-7056-96 50 67
Mobile:  +49-172-731 5858
--------------------





To:    <ygoland@bea.com>, "Furniss, Peter" <Peter.Furniss@choreology.com>,
       <wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org>
cc:
Subject:    [wsbpel] RE:  Issue - 77 - Motion to require access to values
       not defined in portType


I was simply making the point that BPEL is deliberately agnostic about
bindings, thus allowing deployment flexibility.  Process models that are
meant to capture the essence of business process logic in a portable way
should not become dependent on deployment descriptors, which is at least
the intent of the binding element of WSDL 1.1 service descriptions.  The
fact that the intent may be imperfectly realized is not a reason to throw
the principle out.


From: Yaron Goland [mailto:ygoland@bea.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 3:27 PM
To: 'Furniss, Peter'; wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org; Satish Thatte
Subject: Issue - 77 - Motion to require access to values not defined in
portType

In a previous mail in this thread Satish Thatte said:


We must assume that the design of a portType is done properly, i.e., the
"application level" data required to process a message in a business
process is part of the definition of each message. If this assumption is
violated there is not much we can do.


Section 3.7 of the WSDL 1.1 states " It is not necessary to exhaustively
list all headers that appear in the SOAP Envelope using soap:header. " This
means that even a portType which has been done 'properly' may not
necessarily have messages for every header that may appear in the SOAP
envelope received over the wire. Given that even WSDL 1.1 recognizes that
one can reasonably receive SOAP headers that weren't defined in the
portType it would seem reasonable for BPEL to provide a mechanism to access
such values.


I would therefore propose that we put forward a motion that requires the
group to define a mechanism that will enable access to the full contents of
a WSDL described message as transmitted over the wire including contents
not specifically defined in the portType definition.


    Yaron
-----Original Message-----
From: Furniss, Peter [mailto:Peter.Furniss@choreology.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:14 PM
To: wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [wsbpel] Reannouncement - Issue - 77 - BPEL cannot handle some
SOAP header bindings
Due to a mistake on my part, this issue was erroneously announced as number
78. It is really number 77 and is in the issues list with that number. Here
it is again with a hand-edit of the number.

This issue has already had considerable discussion as "Possible new issue
...", which I've grandfathered into the links list - please use an Issue -
77 - subject line on further discussion messages.

Peter
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Furniss, Peter
 Sent: 21 October 2003 21:36
 To: wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org
 Subject: [wsbpel] Issue - 78 - BPEL cannot handle some SOAP header
 bindings


 This issue has been added to the wsbpel issue list. The issues list is
 posted as a Technical Committee document to the OASIS WSBPEL TC pages on a
 regular basis. The current edition, as a TC document, is the most recent
 document with the title in the "Issues" folder of the WSBPEL TC document
 list - the next posting will include this issue. The list editor's working
 copy, which will normally include an issue when it is announced, is
 available at this constant URL.


 Issue - 77   - BPEL cannot handle some SOAP header bindings
 Status: open
 Date added: 21 Oct 2003
 Submitter: Ugo Corda
 Date submitted: 21 October 2003
 Description: Let's suppose we have the following WSDL file:
 <message name="In">
     <part name="InPart" element="InElement"/>
 </message>








 <message name="Header">


     <part name="HeaderPart" element="HeaderElement"/>


 </message>








 <portType name="myPortType">


     <operation name="op1">


         <input message="In"/>


     </operation>


 </portType>








 <binding type="myPortType" ... >


     <soap:binding ..../>


     <operation name="op1">


         <input>


             <soap:body parts="InPart" ...>


             <soap:header message="Header" part="HeaderPart" .../>


         </input>


     </operation>


 </binding>
 In this example, the abstract operation "op1" refers to message "In", but
 the binding brings in an additional second message, "Header", for the
 concrete operation.


 It seems that BPEL would not be able to process the "Header" information
 in any way. For instance, a "receive" operation would only be able to
 specify one inputVariable, which would be associated with the "In" message
 and not the "Header" message. In other words, the "Header" message would
 carry information to the "receive" operation that BPEL would have no
 access to.


 If this is the case, new Web services defined with BPEL in mind could
 easily modify this scenario by defining both body and header as being part
 of a single message, but legacy Web services might be out of reach for
 BPEL.
 Links: Ugo Corda, 20 Oct 2003     Frank Leymann, 21 Oct 2003     Ugo
 Corda, 21 Oct 2003     Satish Thatte, 21 Oct 2003     Peter Furniss, 21
 Oct 2003     Ugo Corda, 21 Oct 2003     Satish Thatte, 21 Oct 2003     Ugo
 Corda, 21 Oct 2003     Satish Thatte, 21 Oct 2003     Ugo Corda, 21 Oct
 2003
 Changes: 21 Oct 2003 - new issue



 To comment on this issue, please follow-up to this announcement on the
 wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org list (replying to this message should
 automatically send your message to that list), or ensure the subject line
 as you send it starts "Issue - 78 - [anything]" or is a reply to such a
 message.


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