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Subject: RE: [wsbpel] Issue 53 - Motion for consideration by the TC



+1



Dieter Roller
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member (STSM)
Member IBM Academy of Technology
Phone :                 +49-7031-164476
Fax :                    +49-7031-164890
e-mail                   rol@de.ibm.com



|---------+---------------------------->
|         |           "Yaron Goland"   |
|         |           <ygoland@bea.com>|
|         |                            |
|         |           01/08/2004 09:13 |
|         |           PM               |
|         |           Please respond to|
|         |           ygoland          |
|         |                            |
|---------+---------------------------->
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |                                                                                                                              |
  |       To:       "'Satish Thatte'" <satisht@microsoft.com>, "'Green, Alastair J.'" <Alastair.Green@choreology.com>,           |
  |        <wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org>                                                                                         |
  |       cc:                                                                                                                    |
  |       Subject:  RE: [wsbpel] Issue 53 - Motion for consideration by the TC                                                   |
  |                                                                                                                              |
  |                                                                                                                              |
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|




+1

We have enough oceans to boil. Let us please not add another.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Satish Thatte [mailto:satisht@microsoft.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:49 PM
> To: Green, Alastair J.; wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [wsbpel] Issue 53 - Motion for consideration by the TC
>
>
> Alastair,
>
> As you know I recognize the importance of business transactions and
> process coordination.  However, as I said during the call
> today, I have
> serious concerns about the specific approach you are proposing
>
> 1. It uses a vanilla outcome notification rather than
> application-defined operations.  As such I don't see how application
> data will be transmitted along with the notifications.  This is
> analogous to the issue we had internally within BPEL
> (issue#3) regarding
> compensation handlers getting access to "global state".
>
> 2. The simple outcome-notification for cancel/confirm is just one
> stylized pattern for process coordination.  Other patterns
> are possible
> -- for instance one where the original work (e.g., a purchase
> order) may
> be changed rather than just cancelled/confirmed.  But with
> the explicit
> handler approach this would require additional syntactic extensions (a
> change handler?).
>
> 3.  We can already model these stylized patterns using existing BPEL
> mechanisms as I tried to illustrate with my presentation at the F2F
> (just uploaded to TC site under "related resources").
>
> 4.  I believe the details of actually making this work with multiple
> concrete coordination protocols will get very hairy in practice, and
> could become a rather serious problem for interoperability.
>
> Even if we cannot agree that the "design pattern" approach I suggested
> is the right approach for the long term, I think we can agree that our
> priority should be to correct, clarify and complete the feature set we
> already have in BPEL, which is large and complex enough, and where we
> still have significant technical difficulties to work through (e.g.,
> issue#10).
>
> If we want to finish the work of this TC by the middle of
> 2004, I would
> strongly urge that we (at a minimum) defer this new feature
> dimension to
> a later version when it can be given the scope of effort it
> deserves.
>
> Satish
> ________________________________________
> From: Green, Alastair J. [mailto:Alastair.Green@choreology.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 5:55 AM
> To: wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: [wsbpel] Issue 53 - Motion for consideration by the TC
>
> Please find attached a motion for consideration as new business, and
> some related notes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Alastair
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from
> the roster of the OASIS TC), go to
> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsbpel/members/le
> ave_workgroup.php.
>
>


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#### winmail.dat has been removed from this note on January 09 2004 by
Dieter Roller





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