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Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [wsbpel] abstract process strawman]


that is very close to the conclusion that i came to as well.  except that i would prefer that different communities be able to define their own standard outside of the core spec.  with conformance being one of those communities.  i just don't get why conformance has special standing, especially given its infancy.

Satish Thatte wrote:

What I heard before is that your customers want to omit anything – which is almost like an editor’s intermediate storage representation.  We don’t need to standardize that because it doesn’t need to have any semantics beyond editing.

 


From: Danny van der Rijn [mailto:dannyv@tibco.com]
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 12:19 PM
To: Satish Thatte
Cc: wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [wsbpel] abstract process strawman]

 

that's what we're doing right now, isn't it?

Satish Thatte wrote:

So then please describe what you have in mind so we can see the precise
differences.
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny van der Rijn [mailto:dannyv@tibco.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 8:44 AM
To: Satish Thatte; wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [wsbpel] abstract process strawman]
 
btw, the templating that was in the paper didn't really match the 
templating that i'm describing which is why i called it out.
 
Danny van der Rijn wrote:
 
  
i was hoping that i misunderstood the intent.  i bothered to be so 
detailed so someone could point out the error in my misunderstanding.
 
as far as a list of features, no i don't have one.  they are just 
omitting what they please and providing what they find to be usefully 
portable.  but a concrete example of that that i do know is that they 
are leaving out specifics of the WSDLs.  "you receive an order here, 
and you send a confirmation response."  that's all that you need to 
know at that point.  not what a line item looks like.  not even what 
an order looks like.
 
Satish Thatte wrote:
 
    
Danny,
 
I think your description of the challenge response metaphor for 
proving conformance represents a misunderstanding of the intent 
(brute force search among lots of randomly generated possibilities 
was not the idea).  Moreover, the templating case is explicitly 
supported in Rania's paper I believe.  Rania and I will address that 
separately.
 
But I am very curious about the specific details your customers would
      
 
  
want to omit while still preserving the meaningfulness of the 
"process IP" they would be selling.  Do you have a list of features 
that ought to be allowed for omission?
 
Satish
 
________________________________
 
From: Danny van der Rijn [mailto:dannyv@tibco.com]
Sent: Thu 9/23/2004 8:57 PM
To: rkhalaf@watson.ibm.com; wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org; 
wsbpel-abstract@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [wsbpel] abstract process strawman]
 
 
you don't see that every day.  i remembered the attachment, but 
forgot the inline text.
 
the enclosed document is my quick reaction to the abstract 
presentation from yesterday.
 
-------- Original Message -------- Subject:     Re: [wsbpel] abstract
      
 
  
process strawman   
Date:     Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:52:21 -0700   
From:     Danny van der Rijn <dannyv@tibco.com> 
<mailto:dannyv@tibco.com>    
To:     rkhalaf@watson.ibm.com   
CC:     wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org, 
wsbpel-abstract@lists.oasis-open.org   
References:     41507291.3010200@watson.ibm.com"><41507291.3010200@watson.ibm.com> 
41507291.3010200@watson.ibm.com"><mailto:41507291.3010200@watson.ibm.com>    
 
 
 
 
rkhalaf wrote:
    Hi everyone,     
    As promised, here is the abstract process strawman document I 
have been putting together. This work aspired to define a consistent 
view of abstract processes  and their use as the basis for continuted
      
 
  
discussion and concrete proposals/resolutions.     
    According to the Agenda, tomorrow or Thursday will be when the 
abstract proc stuff will be discussed.     
    Regards,     Rania     
    
    
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