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Subject: Re: [wsbpel] Issue 82 - Proposal to resolve 82 and other abstractprocess issues
The BPEL 1.1 specification defines a language, which it extends to define executables and abstracts. People in this group indicated they want more sets of restrictions layerd on top of the specification. Let's call them profiles. I would expect us to add more profiles to the two that already exists. Instead, we're going to have two profiles, and create sub-profiles from one of those profiles. We can branch into a more detailed discussion about a template profile, look at specific use cases, etc. We can reach the conclusion that it's a good thing, or a bad thing. But since we already decided to preclude it, the use case becomes irrelevant. Assaf Charlton Barreto wrote: > This is true in a sense, but my concern is that we as such are forced > to deal with absBPEL having more variation - and thus more complexity > - than is needed. > > Overloading in this case definitely simplifies the scenario - > overloading abstracts to support both cases would not necessarily > lead to unwanted restrictions > > On 14/12/2004, at 08:11, Assaf Arkin wrote: > >> I can imagine that during the lifecycle of a process definition, one >> would want to exchange "incomplete" process definitions that do not >> fully conform to BPEL semantics (executable or abstract). At the >> moment the only technical requirement we have is satisfied by what >> XML defined as "well-formed XML". But assume that we reach a point >> where we want more specific restrictions and semantics, beyond >> "readable/writeable XML document using BPEL elements". For example, >> creating a "template" document type with specific semantics that >> could eventually be developed into an executable or abstract. > > > I see this as feasible via use of templates at a high-level w.r.t. > abstract. From Peter's proposal, I do not see where this would impeded. > >> We are concerned that overloading abstracts to support both cases >> would lead to confusion, unwanted restrictions on future extensions, >> and difficulty in understanding AP 1.1. > > > How would this be the case? I agree that it requires deeper > understanding w.r.t. absBPEL, but overloading places fewer > restrictions on future extensions than would adding profiles/dialects. > >> Further, it will be impossible to define a template for an abstract, >> if such a template is called an abstract, as is the resulting >> abstract, as is any template used to generate a process definition. > > > If a template is written to either overloaded definition, this would > be the case. However, is this necessary? What would be the use case > for such a template? I'm not convinced that such a template is > needed. With respect to absBPEL, I see the use case as only > warranting a looser template definition. I feel this fits in nicely > with the abstract level that Peter's proposal aims to maintain. > > -Charlton. > >> Charlton Barreto wrote: >> >>> Satish, >>> >>> I believe the distinctions are orthogonal to one another, and that >>> we are looking at "wide" vs. "deep" vis-a-vis what can be >>> accomplished completely per the level (high and abstract vs. low >>> and detailed). By going "wide" and approaching the issue at a high >>> enough level, as per Peter's proposal, we can provide a >>> complete-enough abstract definition. Some tweaking of the >>> definition for everyone's comfort level may be needed, but I feel >>> that profiles takes us away from "wide" and abstract and >>> introduces much complexity, which I feel to be more than >>> necessary. I also feel that going too "deep" in the interpretation >>> framework, and not sticking to the abstract level of Peter's >>> proposal, will reintroduce the sort of issues that the SC wrestled >>> with earlier this year. I agree with your point #1 (from >>> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsbpel/200412/msg00023.html), >>> but I feel that otherwise Peter's definition is generally complete >>> to address absBPEL at the "wide", abstract level. I'm for >>> avoiding profiles altogether, and sticking to an abstract level >>> for the definition - if not Peter's proposal, then Peter's >>> proposal as a base with some tweaking, >>> >>> -Charlton. >>> >>> On 12/12/2004, at 21:50, Satish Thatte wrote: >>> >>>> Charlton, >>>> >>>> I believe the distinction is not so much between wide and narrow >>>> as between a completely vs incompletely defined notion of >>>> abstract process, either singular, as you seem to prefer, or >>>> plural. The notion in BPEL4WS 1.1 is singular and Peter's >>>> proposal does not actually capture it. I showed what needs to be >>>> added to Peter's proposal to make it correspond to AP1.1. The >>>> only reason to introduce profiles is to allow new interpretations >>>> such as templates that are not present in the spec today. The TC >>>> should decide if we want singular or plural interpretation of >>>> abstract processes. But we do need an interpretation framework >>>> that is actually specified to the point where the semantic >>>> interpretation is unambiguous. For that Peter's proposal needs >>>> some additions, as I explained in my mail >>>> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsbpel/200412/msg00023.html. >>>> >>>> Peter's proposal is indeed very close to what we need. I hope we >>>> will have an amended proposal that fills the remaining gaps to >>>> discuss during the face-to-face meeting. >>>> >>>> Satish >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Charlton Barreto [mailto:charlton_b@mac.com] >>>> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 5:11 PM >>>> To: <wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org> <wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org> >>>> Cc: Peter Furniss; Danny van der Rijn >>>> Subject: Re: [wsbpel] Issue 82 - Proposal to resolve 82 and other >>>> abstract process issues >>>> >>>> I agree with Peter's proposal as is and believe this is the better >>>> route to resolving the outstanding absBPEL issues. I feel that it is >>>> preferred to take a "wide", more abstract approach as opposed to a >>>> "deep", more detailed one, especially given the difficult on agreeing >>>> upon the details. >>>> >>>> Likewise, I feel that adding profiles/dialects to absBPEL would only >>>> add complexity, impact interoperability, and take absBPEL "deeper" >>>> than >>>> needed or is resolvable, and agree with Martin's point on the issue. >>>> I'd prefer to stick to Peter's "wide" approach as it addresses the >>>> issues well enough at a high level. >>>> >>>> On 02/12/2004, at 02:40, Furniss, Peter wrote: >>>> >>>>> It was my original thought that nothing is a valid replacement to >>>>> opaque, though looking at the text, it doesn't read that way. >>>>> Suggest adding, at the end of [4]: >>>>> This includes the case where, if otherwise valid, an opaque entity >>>>> is removed without replacement in a corresponding >>>>> executable artifact) >>>>> ([4] and [5] deliberately avoid the implication that the >>>>> concretization is necessarily executable bpel, so "syntactically" >>>>> may >>>>> be over-specific) >>>>> Peter >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Danny van der Rijn [mailto:dannyv@tibco.com] >>>>> Sent: 01 December 2004 17:59 >>>>> To: wsbpel@lists.oasis-open.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [wsbpel] Issue 82 - Proposal to resolve 82 and other >>>>> abstract process issues >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> i would explicitly add to your proposal that it is allowed that >>>>> "opaque" be removed completely in an executable realization, so long >>>>> as such removal is syntactically valid. in other words, my current >>>>> reading is that while <opaque> -> <empty> is valid, <opaque> -> >>>>> <!-- removed opaque --> is not. my opinion is that it should be. >>>>> same for attributes. >>>>> >>>>> danny >>>>> >>>>> Furniss, Peter wrote: >>>>> Taking into account previous discussions and definitions, >>>>> including >>>>> the Abstract BPEL >>>>> sub-group work, the following definition of Abstract BPEL is >>>>> proposed >>>>> as the resolution >>>>> of issue 82, to be included in WS-BPEL v2.0. This definition would >>>>> supercede the v1.1 >>>>> definition. >>>>> A resolution in principle of issue 107 is also proposed, in >>>>> line with >>>>> this defintion. >>>>> The other abstract issues can then be rapidly resolved in line with >>>>> these proposals: >>>>> 91, 97, 99 - abstract processes ARE allowed to omit/hide the >>>>> features >>>>> mentioned. The >>>>> schema should make the elements in question optional and, in line >>>>> with 107, allow >>>>> explicit <opaque> as an alternative. >>>>> 109 - close with no change, mark as revisitable >>>>> (The existing proposals for some of these issues are already in >>>>> line >>>>> with this >>>>> proposal.) >>>>> A corollary of [2] below is that the content of the >>>>> "extensions for >>>>> executable >>>>> processes" would become part of the main body. >>>>> Proposal for Issue 82: >>>>> Abstract BPEL definition: >>>>> A BPEL abstract process is a partially specified process that >>>>> is not >>>>> intended to be >>>>> executed. Executable and abstract BPEL processes share the same >>>>> expressive power, while >>>>> the latter allows process definitions that are capable of >>>>> abstracting away operational >>>>> details. Whereas executable processes are fully concretized and >>>>> thus >>>>> can be executed, an >>>>> abstract process lacks some of the required concrete operational >>>>> details expressed by or >>>>> when mapping it to a fully executable artifact. An abstract BPEL >>>>> process must be >>>>> explicitly declared as 'abstract'. >>>>> Abstract processes serve a descriptive role. A BPEL abstract >>>>> process >>>>> can define the >>>>> publicly visible behavior of some or all of the services it offers >>>>> ("myRole" in its >>>>> partnerLinks), which may include its interactions along its >>>>> partnerLinks with other >>>>> services. Alternatively, A BPEL abstract process can define a >>>>> process "template" >>>>> embodying domain-specific best practices, encoded in a >>>>> platform-neutral and portable way >>>>> by both enterprises and vertical standards organizations. The >>>>> process >>>>> "template" >>>>> captures some essential process logic while leaving out >>>>> operational >>>>> details that will be >>>>> concretized by the enterprises and vertical standards organizations >>>>> when mapping the >>>>> partial process specification to a fully executable artifact. >>>>> >>>>> Semantics of Abstract Processes: >>>>> [1] Although it might contain complete information that >>>>> would render it executable as specified for executable BPEL, its >>>>> abstract status states >>>>> that any concrete realizations of it may perform additional >>>>> processing steps that are not >>>>> relevant to the audience to which it has been given. The minimum >>>>> criteria for an abstract >>>>> process is defined in this specification while completeness is left >>>>> undefined. >>>>> [2] Abstract processes permit the use of all of the >>>>> constructs of >>>>> executable processes. >>>>> Thus there is no fundamental expressive power distinction between >>>>> abstract and >>>>> executable processes. >>>>> [3] An abstract process may omit operational details that are >>>>> mandatory for BPEL executable >>>>> processes either through the omission of specific BPEL elements or >>>>> attributes listed >>>>> in the specification, or through the use of "opaque" entities of >>>>> various types (i.e. >>>>> elements, attributes, etc.). >>>>> However, the semantics of the constructs used in such a >>>>> process are >>>>> exactly the same as >>>>> their semantics in the executable context. Addionally, an abstract >>>>> process is required >>>>> to be syntactically valid using the executable schema extended with >>>>> the opaque entities. >>>>> [4] The omitted operational details may be added anywhere, >>>>> by or when mapping an abstract process to a fully executable >>>>> artifact. In addition, if >>>>> the points of the omitted operational details are specified through >>>>> the use of opaque >>>>> entities, then these placeholders are replaced with other concrete >>>>> entities in any >>>>> executable artifact that corresponds to the abstract process using >>>>> such opaque entities. >>>>> [5] Abstract processes say nothing about *how* concretized, >>>>> executable realizations of >>>>> them should be implemented (ie: language, platform, etc) >>>>> (analogy to >>>>> WSDL). Nor do they >>>>> imply a relationship(s) with any such realizations. >>>>> Proposal for issue 107: >>>>> Language extensions required for abstract processes >>>>> The language extensions consist of opaque 'placeholders' >>>>> whose functions are explained below: >>>>> [1] Opaque expressions- Needed in particular for opaque >>>>> assignment, >>>>> opaque transition >>>>> conditions, opaque query expression. Opaque assignment is used for >>>>> capturing variable >>>>> creation/modification in a yet-to-be-concretized mechanism/fashion. >>>>> [2] Opaque activities- Hide a concrete BPEL activity, such >>>>> as a structured activity, a lifecycle activity (ie. >>>>> receive-start) or even just an "empty". They may also be used as a >>>>> source or a target of >>>>> control links. >>>>> [3] Opaque attributes- Hide a concrete BPEL attribute. For >>>>> example >>>>> in invoke, receive >>>>> or reply activities opaque attributes are specifying that variables >>>>> need to be filled in >>>>> by or when mapping the partial process specification to a fully >>>>> executable artifact. >>>>> >>>>> Peter >>>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>>> Peter Furniss >>>>> Chief Scientist, Choreology Ltd >>>>> web: http://www.choreology.com >>>>> email: peter.furniss@choreology.com >>>>> phone: +44 870 739 0066 >>>>> mobile: +44 7951 536168 >>>>> Choreology Anti virus scan completed >>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the >>>>> roster >>>>> of the OASIS TC), go to >>>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsbpel/members/ >>>>> leave_workgroup.php. >>>>> Choreology Anti virus scan completed >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the >>>> roster of the OASIS TC), go to >>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsbpel/members/ >>>> leave_workgroup.php. >>>> >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the >>>> roster of the OASIS TC), go to >>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsbpel/members/ >>>> leave_workgroup.php. >>>> >>> >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the >>> roster of the OASIS TC), go to >>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wsbpel/members/ >>> leave_workgroup.php. >>> >>> >> >> <arkin.vcf> > > >
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