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Subject: RE: [wsdm] [OMod] William's AI: endpoint -> service


William,

Ok on most of your suggestions here. I'll take them and put in the MOWS draft that I'm preparing today. 

[Well, then the notion of service is just as unambiguous, per WSDL as well, isn't it? How is an endpoint uniquely identified by a URI? I could have 2 endpoints listening at the same address. And in some cases (see the conversation on unique wire signatures that took places in WS-I BP and is now taking place in W3C WS-desc) there is no way to tell what endpoint a message is intended for. If endpoints were really so unambiguous, this wouldn't be the case, would it?]

I'm talking about DEFINITION of an endpoint. That identifies the concept of an endpoint for MOWS. That is very unique if WSDL spec is followed and we do not try to accommodate misuse of the spec in some stupid cases (that we all may have seen). The definition of a port that belongs to a service in a targetNamespace of a WSDL 1.1 document is unique. A URI may identify that definition of a port = ednpoint.
The runtime/dispatch intrications have nothing to do with the definition itself.

-- Igor Sedukhin .. (igor.sedukhin@ca.com)
-- (631) 342-4325 .. 1 CA Plaza, Islandia, NY 11788

-----Original Message-----
From: VAMBENEPE,WILLIAM (HP-Cupertino,ex1) [mailto:vbp@hp.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 9:14 PM
To: Sedukhin, Igor S; wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [wsdm] [OMod] William's AI: endpoint -> service


Hi Igor,

Thanks for the review. See below for responses...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sedukhin, Igor S [mailto:Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:01 AM
> To: VAMBENEPE,WILLIAM (HP-Cupertino,ex1); wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [wsdm] [OMod] William's AI: endpoint -> service
> 
> 
> William,
> 
> I think your text is just fine with the exception of the following 
> statement.
> 
> [The presence of a collection mechanism will also allow a manager to 
> access  a set of endpoints (representing a
> service) as one entity. Finally, the MOWS specification will identify  
> in a non-normative way capabilities of a service and how they can be 
> derived from the capabilities of  the endpoints that compose them.]
> 
> I think it is too early to presume that we do collections and 
> non-normative spec of managing web services in addition to endpoints 
> before january 2004. May be we need to discuss this with a larger 
> group. I propose that we don't include those statements so far and 
> adopt the rest of your text now.

I think support for collections is important but I agree that this is a separate question from how endpoints map to services and that this is to be discussed by the overall group. How about rewording this as:

"One way a manager can be allowed to access a set of endpoints (representing a service) as one entity would be through a collection mechanism".

This way we don't say in this text whether or not there will be a collection mechanism, but this reminds us to be careful, when we define endpoints, to not do anything that would make it impractical to group endpoints into services when and if a collection mechanism is defined.

> Also a few minor corrections:
> 
> [dereferencable URL]
> I think URL is always "dereferencable", URN may not be. So saying just 
> URL is sufficient.

OK.

> [Nevertheless, the notion of endpoint is  relatively unambiguous.] I 
> think it is just unambiguous per WSDL pec, isn't it? One important 
> point is missing here is that an endpoint is uniquely idenifiable by a 
> URI and that counts towards being unabiguous.

Well, then the notion of service is just as unambiguous, per WSDL as well, isn't it? How is an endpoint uniquely identified by a URI? I could have 2 endpoints listening at the same address. And in some cases (see the conversation on unique wire signatures that took places in WS-I BP and is now taking place in W3C WS-desc) there is no way to tell what endpoint a message is intended for. If endpoints were really so unambiguous, this wouldn't be the case, would it?

> [... such as UDDI, that do not use the same mechanism.] I think one 
> important thing that is missing in that paragraph is the following. I 
> propose to add it.
> "For visibility and other concerns, many WSDL documents may include 
> descriptions of the same service with different endpoints. In certain 
> cases WSDL document may include a description of a service with 
> endpoints offered by different providers." This applies to both WSDL 
> 1.1 and WSDL 2.0 equally. I believe this to be very important.

OK.

> [..WSDM MOWS specification defines endpoints..] It should say "defines 
> manageability of endpoints".

OK.

Regards,

William

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