RE: [wsdm] to singleton or not to singleton

["Vambenepe, William N" <vbp@hp.com>]

Igor,

The problem you are pointing out is not specific to EPR and would not be
solved by your proposed restriction to the singleton pattern. The
question is "how do I find a handle to a manageable endpoint". Whether
this handle is an EPR or a WSDL service element (in the case of the
singleton pattern) is not the problem. This is a generic discovery
problem with MUWS.

Now, as I wrote before, in the case of MOWS things are different because
we have an operational WSDL for the resource. I can see how we would put
some discovery optimization in MOWS to take advantage of this. But this
has nothing to do with MUWS.

If I misunderstand you, please describe a MUWS (not MOWS) situation in
which the singleton pattern makes discovery easier.

Now regarding:

> 3) Leave it as it is and publish a committee draft of a spec 
> that cannot be used in an interoperable manner.

As you would expect, I have to contest this representation. The WSDL
spec doesn't say how you find the WSDL description of a service. Does
this mean that WSDL cannot be used in an interoperable manner?

Regards,

William


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sedukhin, Igor S [mailto:Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 5:58 PM
> To: fred.carter@amberpoint.com; wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [wsdm] to singleton or not to singleton
> 
> 
>  Fred, yes I agree with you.
> 
> So to sum it up we have three choices now
> 
> 1) fix WSDM 0.5 spec and explain how to obtain EPRs before 
> publishing it as a committee draft. For that we may have to 
> define some operations or use WS-ServiceGroup or things like 
> that. I don't want to dive in details here.
> 
> 2) make a statement in the WSDM 0.5 spec that the valid 
> silngeton pattern of WSRF applies here. Then publish as a 
> committee draft.
> 
> 3) Leave it as it is and publish a committee draft of a spec 
> that cannot be used in an interoperable manner.
> 
> -- Igor Sedukhin .. (igor.sedukhin@ca.com)
> -- (631) 342-4325 .. 1 CA Plaza, Islandia, NY 11788
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Carter [mailto:fred.carter@amberpoint.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 6:32 PM
> To: wsdm@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [wsdm] Groups - 
> wd-wsdm-muws-0.5-20040329-with-tracking.zip uploaded
> 
> <FlameproofSuit state="on">
> 
> Folks,
> 
> I think that if we want to, we can all do a pretty good job 
> of sabotaging any chance of getting things to work.  If 
> that's the goal, so be it.
> 
> On the other hand, we can look at this as a chance to get 
> something working -- not complete, not totally perfect, but 
> basically functioning.
> 
> We know that for this interop, we will have one 
> endpoint/provider endpoint.  Thus, the singleton case 
> applies.  Why complicate things?
> 
> "...the WS-R? standard says..." :: It's not a standard yet.  
> Nor, for that matter, is WS-Addressing, insofar as I know 
> (but that's a different problem), so I don't know what the 
> required means for operation necessarily is at present.  It 
> may be that "our feedback" is that the default cases for 
> these should make things simpler, since that's what exists in 
> the world today. (<tongueSlightlyInCheek>If I can define all 
> current web services as compliant because they work with the 
> default case (no info),  "just look at my installed base." 
> </tongueSlightlyInCheek>)
> 
> (Remember, too, that the standard as it's currently defined 
> has already undergone some change to make it work with tools, 
> internally consistent, etc.  Let us not believe too strongly 
> in its state of perfection...)
> 
> 
> Personally, I'd like to see something, however miniscule, 
> working.  If we can remove obstacles to getting basic 
> interoperation between a manager & a manageability provider, 
> so much the better.  Once something works, it's not hard to 
> add new stuff til it breaks, and mung until done.  The 
> interop scenario about which we're talking is "10 people in a 
> room with a /community of laptops/."  If/when we stage a more 
> public thing, we can deal with how this will evolve, what is 
> the EPR format, how does real discovery work, what are the 
> fault definitions, etc.
> 
> 
> But that's just me...
> 
> /fred
> 
> </FlameproofSuit>
> 
> I'll now return you to your regularly scheduled entertainment...
> 
> --
> Fred Carter / AmberPoint, Inc.
> 
mailto:fred.carter@amberpoint.com
tel:+1.510.433.6525 fax:+1.510.663.6301

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