Re: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)

[Kurt Cagle <kurt@kurtcagle.net>]

I'm not a regular contributor to this list, but this was a point that raised
some flags for me.

There are some very compelling reasons to standardize on XHTML and
discourage HTML 4.0 syntax. Looking at the WSRP and WSIA architectures, a
significant portion of the pieces at any stage in this process are going to
need to be manipulated within an XML parser - as SOAP payloads, sources (or
parameterization) of XSLT, generated XForm output, and so forth. That the
target of an operation COULD handle HTML is somewhat irrelevent - by working
within an XHTML basis you are able to handle output to all devices whether
they can consume HTML or not.

Moreover, if the raw output of a WSRP service is XHTML, you can always run
that through an XSLT filter to render it to a limited capability system,
something that isn't easy to do with HTML without a great deal of
non-standard components that may or may not be able to clean up the HTML
(for instance, Tidy has an XHTML and an XML output option, but if the raw
data is sufficiently malformed, it will be unable to get to the point where
its generating that output in the first place).

I'd recommend that HTML be considered an obsolete language from the
standpoint of the wsrp group - supportable through "extensions" to the
model, but not something that's core to it.

-- Kurt Cagle


----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Schaeck" <SCHAECK@de.ibm.com>
To: "PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)" <gregory_pavlik@hp.com>
Cc: "Takao Mohri" <mohri.takao@jp.fujitsu.com>; "PAVLIK,GREGORY
(HP-NewJersey,ex2)" <gregory_pavlik@hp.com>; "WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)"
<wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)


>
> I think we can specify the allowed / forbidden tags that should apply both
> for HTML / (X)HTML and should (at least) specify that WSRP services
> *should* output valid XHTML, not just HTML. I don't think we should go so
> far to mandate that WSRP services *must* output valid XHTML.
>
> We definitively should define valid XHTML fragments, but I think we also
> should cover what are valid HTML fragments.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Thomas
>
> Thomas Schaeck
>
>
> "PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)" <gregory_pavlik@hp.com> on 04/10/2002
> 05:47:56 PM
>
> Please respond to "PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)"
>        <gregory_pavlik@hp.com>
>
> To:    Thomas Schaeck/Germany/IBM@IBMDE, Takao Mohri
>        <mohri.takao@jp.fujitsu.com>
> cc:    "PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)" <gregory_pavlik@hp.com>, "WSRP
>        Mailing List (E-mail)" <wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Subject:    RE: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)
>
>
>
> Is there a general statement on whether the markup subcommittee intends to
> treat HTML and XHTML interchangeably? My initial thought was that WSRP
> would
> do better to standardize on XHTML, which would have a number of advantages
> including the ability of the consumer to treat the fragment as an XML
> fragment. It's not terribly difficult to tidy up a piece of HTML and
> repurpose it as well-formed/valid XHTML when dealing with legacy content.
> An
> early focus on XHTML might position us better for dealing with devices in
> the long run, as it appears that WML and cHTML are going to be secondary
> targets for the TC.
>
> Greg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Schaeck [mailto:SCHAECK@de.ibm.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 5:43 PM
> To: Takao Mohri
> Cc: PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2); WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)
> Subject: Re: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)
>
>
>
>
> There is not something like "the markup language of WSRP", the WSRP
> protocol needs not to be tied to any particular markup language, the
> protocol and the markup exchanged can be viewed as orthogonal.
>
> However, WSRP will need to define rules for valid markup fragments and
> common styles with the priorities
> 1. (X)HTML
> 2. WML, cHTML, VoiceXML...
>
> It would be interesting to see the rules that would define valid XHTML
> Basic fragments.
>
> Takao, could you post an XHTML Basic example document to the mailing list
> and an outline of fragment rules for XHTML Basic ? Which tags would be
> allowed in aggregatable XHTML Basic fragments and which tags would not be
> allowed to use in fragments ?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Thomas
>
>
> Takao Mohri <mohri.takao@jp.fujitsu.com> on 04/09/2002 01:26:58 PM
>
> Please respond to Takao Mohri <mohri.takao@jp.fujitsu.com>
>
> To:    "PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)" <gregory_pavlik@hp.com>
> cc:    "WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)" <wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Subject:    Re: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)
>
>
>
> Greg,
>
> Yes, as you mentioned, XHTML Basic is becoming a standard for cellular
> phones.
> In WAP 2.0, XHTML Mobile Profile (an extention of XHTML Basic) is a
> standard markup language. In Japan, cellular phones that support WAP 2.0
> are already on sale by KDDI. NTT Docomo also has announced support of WAP
> 2.0.
> In the near future, WAP 2.0, i.e, XTHML Basic will be used by many mobile
> devices.
>
> If the markup language of WSRP is based on XHTML Basic,
> it makes support of mobile devices much easier.
>
> Regards,
> Takao
>
>
> "PAVLIK,GREGORY (HP-NewJersey,ex2)" wrote:
> >
> > Gino,
> >
> > Could you clarify if your intent is to consider XHMTL/XHTML Basic as a
> part
> > of the HTML focus? This wasn't clear from the notes. There appears to be
> a
> > broad convergence in the mobile space, both with respect to WML and NTT
> > Docomo, to standardizing on XHTML Basic + CSS. XHTML is going to be here
> on
> > the device very soon, perhaps quicker than on the desktop, making this a
> > relatively high priority item. Fujitsu may have some comments on this as
> > well.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gino Filicetti [mailto:gfilicetti@bowstreet.com]
> > Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 3:22 PM
> > To: WSRP Mailing List (E-mail)
> > Subject: [wsrp][markup] First conference call (Summary)
> >
> > Team,
> >
> > Attached are the meeting notes from today's Markup Subcommittee meeting.
> > Comments and suggestions are welcome.
> >
> > One thing I did notice was that there were quite a few participants
today
> > that aren't on the actual list of official members for this team. Since
> this
> > team is quite small, I think it'd be great if we could get some of you
to
> > officially join and help out with the effort. Unfortunately, I wasn't
> able
> > to capture the names of ALL the attendees this time around (I'll be sure
> to
> > record the con-call next time), but please send me an email so we can
add
> > your name to official list and flesh out the team a little more.
> >
> > Currently, the official list is:
> >
> > Gino Filicetti
> > David Taieb
> > Khurram Mahmood
> > Susan Levine
> > Michael Hillerman
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> > Gino Filicetti | Software Engineer
> > One Harbour Place, Portsmouth, NH 03801
> > T 603.559.1692 | gfilicetti@bowstreet.com
> > w w w . b o w s t r e e t . c o m
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> // Takao MOHRI (mohri.takao@jp.fujitsu.com)
> // FUJITSU LABORATORIES LTD.
>
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