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Subject: Re: [wsrp] NavState vs. Interaction State or what is the purpose ofinteraction state?
no, I think that's enough.
Key point seems to be here (quite similar to gM()) that the Consumer has to
define an appropriate policy / algorithm to compute a cache key and using
this computation also to decide whether a result is cachable at all.
But the difference is that gR() can be both as per current design
idempotent and non-idempotent (therefor not cacheable), whereas gM() is per
design.
Mit freundlichen Gruessen / best regards,
Richard Jacob
______________________________________________________
IBM Lab Boeblingen, Germany
Dept.8288, WebSphere Portal Server Development
WSRP Technical Lead
WSRP Standardization
Phone: ++49 7031 16-3469 - Fax: ++49 7031 16-4888
Email: mailto:richard.jacob@de.ibm.com
Rich Thompson
<richt2@us.ibm.co
m> To
wsrp <wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>
05/31/06 08:06 PM cc
Subject
Re: [wsrp] NavState vs. Interaction
State or what is the purpose of
interaction state?
We did add requestVerb to ClientData which gM(), gR() and pbia() all
receive.
As to the cacheability of gR() responses, section 6.3.1 says that the
returned cacheControl determines how the Consumer is to apply caching to
the resource (much cleanly than we had for the http proxying of resources
in v1). Would a conformance statement in 6.3.1 make this better address the
scenario you raise?
Rich
Richard Jacob
<richard.jacob@de.ibm.com>
To
05/31/06 10:58 AM Subbu Allamaraju <subbu@bea.com>
cc
wsrp <wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject
Re: [wsrp] NavState vs. Interaction
State or what is the purpose of
interaction state?
Well, as my input to the pre F2F version to gR():
"46. 6.1.24 ResourceParams type
I would expect that Producer use ResourceParams as a proxying means (that's
the main purpose of why we introduced it) and thus will typically also want
to generate a HTTP request to their back end servers.
Do we need more information to mimic the HTTP request here?
Examples especially when we're thinking about AJAX might be the HTTP verb
like POST, GET, and even PUT or DELETE.
Also do we want/need to distinguish between idempotent operations and
operation modifying state?
From the Consumer's perspective all getResource operation results seem to
be cachable and idempotent. This might not necessarirly be true."
Again, what happens to cachability of gR() results if it can modify state?
One proposal I had quite a while ago is to have two operations
getResource() and modifyResource(). How can the Conumer know if gR() result
is cacheable or not?
Mit freundlichen Gruessen / best regards,
Richard Jacob
______________________________________________________
IBM Lab Boeblingen, Germany
Dept.8288, WebSphere Portal Server Development
WSRP Technical Lead
WSRP Standardization
Phone: ++49 7031 16-3469 - Fax: ++49 7031 16-4888
Email: mailto:richard.jacob@de.ibm.com
Subbu Allamaraju
<subbu@bea.com>
To
05/31/06 03:51 PM wsrp <wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>
cc
Subject
Re: [wsrp] NavState vs. Interaction
State or what is the purpose of
interaction state?
> Portlets had a lot of flexibility already. Looking at this again from a
> consistency point of view, I can see adding a resourceState field and
> accompanying portlet url parameter.
I agree.
Subbu
> *Subbu Allamaraju <subbu@bea.com>*
>
> 05/30/06 06:51 PM
>
>
> To
> Michael Freedman <michael.freedman@oracle.com>
> cc
> wsrp <wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Subject
> Re: [wsrp] NavState vs. Interaction State or what is the
purpose of
> interaction state?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I raised a question about getResource not taking additional input (like
> a resourceState as you suggest) sometime last year. The outcome of the
> discussion was that that producer is responsible for generating
> resourceID to point to the state. IMO, that is not the cleanest solution
> since it would require the producer to manage the mapping somewhere, or
> encode it in the navigationalState. But the later option seems
> inconsistent given the semantic difference between resources and markup.
> But that's what we have now.
>
> Subbu
>
> Michael Freedman wrote:
> > What is the significant benefit you see to distinguishing between them
> > relative to building the url? Also, if you believe it is significant
> > and the significance is tied to the model you define, why doesn't
> > getResource take a resourceState field to carry additional state
needed
> > to process getting the resource?
> > -Mike-
> >
> > Rich Thompson wrote:
> >>
> >> The model in the protocol is that navState is what is required to
> >> properly render the portlet for the user. Interaction state provides
> >> any additional state needed to process the action.
> >>
> >> My analogy to the web world distinguishes between state sent on the
> >> post and what is passed on a redirect to a get request. Often the
> >> state on the post is a superset of what is on the get request.
Outside
> >> of the serialize/deserialize issues of getting these on and off urls,
> >> I don't see why a web app would distinguish between them internally.
> >> On the other hand, I do see significant benefits to distinguish them
> >> relative to building the url and hence also within the WSRP protocol.
> >>
> >> Rich
> >>
> >>
> >> *Michael Freedman <michael.freedman@oracle.com>*
> >>
> >> 05/30/06 04:38 PM
> >>
> >>
> >> To
> >> Subbu Allamaraju <subbu@bea.com>
> >> cc
> >> wsrp <wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >> Subject
> >> Re: [wsrp] NavState vs. Interaction State or what
> is the purpose of
> >> interaction state?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> See comments inline:
> >>
> >> Subbu Allamaraju wrote:
> >>
> >> > My interpretation is that nav state represents outcome of action
> >> > processing, where as interaction state is usually an input to the
> >> > action. It is not managed by the consumer beyond the current
request.
> >> >
> >> > [MF] Your (first sentence) definition matches what I saw as the
> >> > original intent before MarkupParams was passed to the PBI. I don't
> >> > really understand your second (sentence) point: navState must be
> >> > explicitly output from a PBI for the consumer to continue to
maintain
> >> > it hance from a technical perspective there is now difference as to
> >> > whether the inputs to PBI were interactionState or navState -- the
> >> > operation still has to decide what values constitute the new
navState
> >> > and respond.
> >> >
> >> > Another key (and probably more important) difference is that
> >> > interaction state could be different between two URLs generated by
a
> >> > portlet, but both URLs will most likely carry the same nav state.
In
> >> > this case, I can't think of a way of mapping interaction state as
> >> > navigational state.
> >> >
> >> > [MF] Again, from a PBI point of view NavState is (now) both input
and
> >> > output, in addition navState can change during the interaction
> >> > processing, this is a superset of what interaction state does -- in
> >> > the end the developer is merely encoding state into the ActionUrl
--
> >> > hence it shouldn't be problemmatic to encode both PBI only state +
> >> > PBI/render state into navState. Are you thinking that many
developers
> >> > end up modeling navState in explicit objects and hence anything
that
> >> > isn't needed to represent render state would need to come from a
> >> > different abstraction? If so, how common is this in a web
developer
> >> > world where such state are usually seen as request parameters that
are
> >> > then pushed into models/backing (managed) beans?
> >> >
> >> > Subbu
> >> >
> >> > Michael Freedman wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Given the current state of the spec, I am trying to figure out
what
> >> >> the purpose of interactionState is. Can anyone help? My
> >> >> recollection is that originally interactionState was the PBI
> >> >> equivalent of navigationalState (for getMarkup) prior to us adding
> >> >> the "performance enhacement" that passed PBI MarkupParams so
> >> >> action/render response could occur in a single request. This no
> >> >> longer seems to be our intent as shown by the URL samples in
section
> >> >> 10.2.1.9. I.e. the second example expresses an actionURL with
both
> >> >> navigationalState and interactionState. What is the new model? I
> >> >> can think of something like interactionState holds those values
that
> >> >> augment the action processing while navigationalState holds those
> >> >> values that augment the rendering process -- but that seems pretty
> >> >> meaningless given that in most applications state is state that
you
> >> >> compute with and render from. I.e. why wouldn't developers merely
> >> >> represent all such state as NavigationalState (particularly
because
> >> >> this form now has an opaque and non-opaque portion)? Since
navState
> >> >> doesn't inherently carry forward at the end of an action/event,
you
> >> >> must explicitly set it it seems to offer everything
interactionState
> >> >> does but in one object that spans all operations.
> >> >> -Mike-
> >> >>
> >> >>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >> >
> >> >
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