RE: [wss] xml:id proposal

[Anthony Nadalin <drsecure@us.ibm.com>]

Paul,

(1) It is described in the document (http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-id/) in section "C Impact on Canonicalization (Non-Normative)" these issues impact the usage of Inclusive C14N

(3) I agree with your update to change the MUST to a MAY, but Item #1 effects senders, I did not see where Frederick covered senders, so this would be new text that needs to be added.

Anthony Nadalin | Work 512.838.0085 | Cell 512.289.4122
"Paul Cotton" <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>

"Paul Cotton" <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>

09/04/2005 11:33 AM

To	Anthony Nadalin/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
cc	<Frederick.Hirsch@nokia.com>, <wss@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject	RE: [wss] xml:id proposal

> As I read the specification, the usage of xml:Id causes issues with "classic" C14N

Please inform us of the issues you see.

>(2) No element should be allowed to have more than one id attribute so any element that has a schema that defines an id already cannot.

I agree as long as the schema defines the id attribute to be mandatory. If it is optional then I think xml:id is a possible replacement for an optionally defined id attribute in the schema.

> So at best I think that at best this is a "may implement" , not a SHOULD or MUST.

Please note that Frederick’s original proposal had a MUST for what a Receiver was supposed to do. An important change that I made was that I changed this MUST to a MAY. But you seem to be describing that you want the MAY to apply to Senders. Can you please tell us exactly what SHOULD or MUST you want changed?

/paulc

Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
17 Eleanor Drive, Nepean, Ontario K2E 6A3
Tel: (613) 225-5445 Fax: (425) 936-7329
mailto:pcotton@microsoft.com

---

From: Anthony Nadalin [mailto:drsecure@us.ibm.com] 
Sent: September 3, 2005 12:56 PM
To: Paul Cotton
Cc: Frederick.Hirsch@nokia.com; wss@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [wss] xml:id proposal

Couple of issues:

(1) As I read the specification, the usage of xml:Id causes issues with "classic" C14N, we have identified use cases where Inclusive C14N is a requirement and where exe-C14N will not work.

(2) No element should be allowed to have more than one id attribute so any element that has a schema that defines an id already cannot.

So at best I think that at best this is a "may implement" , not a SHOULD or MUST.

Anthony Nadalin | Work 512.838.0085 | Cell 512.289.4122
"Paul Cotton" <pcotton@microsoft.com>

"Paul Cotton" <pcotton@microsoft.com>

09/01/2005 01:04 PM

To	<Frederick.Hirsch@nokia.com>
cc	<wss@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject	RE: [wss] xml:id proposal

I would like to offer a series of amendments to your proposal. I am
offering these amendments since I believe:

a) we need to ensure that WSS 1.1 is as backwards compatible as possible
with WSS 1.0
b) we should NOT mandate the immediate implementation of xml:id since it
will take some time for implementations to adopt the future W3C
Recommendation (but we should permit it)
c) your proposed text incorrectly asserts that xml:id is of "schema type
ID".

I believe my amendments still help achieve what you want to do and hope
that the TC will be able to adopt the amended proposal.

/paulc


> Add to section 4, ID References,
>
> (1) Replace "attribute" at line 494 with
>
> "attribute and the xml:id attribute [XMLID]."

I support this change since the list is prefaced with "also allows use".

> XMLID is a reference to the W3C XML ID Recommendation, to be added to
> the references section of the document.
>
> (2) Add additional bullet after line 500:
> * Global xml:id attributes on elements

I support this change since it just is a list of types of ids.

> (3) Add following paragraph right before 4.1, after line 504
>
> Tokens and elements that are defined in this specification and
> related profiles to use wsu:Id attributes should do so, additional
> profiles and other elements to be signed may choose to use xml:id or
> wsu:Id. All receivers MUST be able to identify XML elements carrying
> either a wsu:Id or an xml:id attribute as representing an attribute
> of schema type ID and process it accordingly.

Rationale: We cannot make support of xml:id mandatory since it breaks
backwards compatibility with WSS 1.0 and it is inappropriate to force
implementers to support xml:id so soon after it becomes a
Recommendation. Note as well that xml:id attributes are NOT of "schema
type ID".

I propose to substitute the following text for the above change:

Tokens and elements that are defined in this specification and
related profiles to use wsu:Id attributes should do so, additional
profiles and other elements to be signed may choose to use xml:id or
wsu:Id. All receivers MUST be able to identify XML elements carrying
a wsu:Id attribute as representing an attribute of schema type ID and
process it accordingly. All receivers SHOULD be able to identify XML
elements carrying a xml:id attribute as representing an id attribute and
process it accordingly.

> (4) Add following to end of last paragraph in 4.1, at line 521
>
> In addition, the xml:id attribute may be used. Applications MUST NOT
> specify both a wsu:ID and xml:id attribute on a single element, this
> is an XML requirement that only one attribute of type xsd:ID be
> specified on a single element.

Rationale: Again xml:id attributes are NOT of "schema type xsd:ID".

I propose to substitute the following text for the above change:

In addition, the xml:id attribute may be used. Applications MUST NOT
specify both a wsu:ID and xml:id attribute on a single element. It
is an XML requirement that only one id attribute be specified on a
single element.

>
> (5) Change following into 4.2 Id Schema, at line 550:
>
> Replace
> "this attribute definition into their parsers"
>
> with
> "this attribute definition and that of xml:id into their parsers"

Rationale: I do not think this change is correct since it implies that
xml:id is of "schema type xsd:ID" and this is NOT correct.

I propose that no change is needed to Section 4.2 since it only needs to
discuss wsu:ID which it already does.

/paulc

Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
17 Eleanor Drive, Nepean, Ontario K2E 6A3
Tel: (613) 225-5445 Fax: (425) 936-7329
mailto:pcotton@microsoft.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frederick Hirsch [mailto:frederick.hirsch@nokia.com]
> Sent: August 31, 2005 5:19 PM
> To: Oasis WSS
> Cc: Frederick Hirsch
> Subject: [wss] xml:id proposal
>
> Here is a concrete proposal to add xml:id to WSS 1.1 core, in
> response to public review comment.
>
> Line numbers below refer to latest draft which is public review with
> subsequent committee changes [1]
>
> Add to section 4, ID References,
>
> (1) Replace "attribute" at line 494 with
>
> "attribute and the xml:id attribute [XMLID]."
>
> XMLID is a reference to the W3C XML ID Recommendation, to be added to
> the references section of the document.
>
> (2) Add additional bullet after line 500:
> * Global xml:id attributes on elements
>
> (3) Add following paragraph right before 4.1, after line 504
>
> Tokens and elements that are defined in this specification and
> related profiles to use wsu:Id attributes should do so, additional
> profiles and other elements to be signed may choose to use xml:id or
> wsu:Id. All receivers MUST be able to identify XML elements carrying
> either a wsu:Id or an xml:id attribute as representing an attribute
> of schema type ID and process it accordingly.
>
> (4) Add following to end of last paragraph in 4.1, at line 521
>
> In addition, the xml:id attribute may be used. Applications MUST NOT
> specify both a wsu:ID and xml:id attribute on a single element, this
> is an XML requirement that only one attribute of type xsd:ID be
> specified on a single element.
>
> (5) Change following into 4.2 Id Schema, at line 550:
>
> Replace
> "this attribute definition into their parsers"
>
> with
> "this attribute definition and that of xml:id into their parsers"
>
> Attached is a red-lined PDF showing these changes in context, based
> on the public review draft (with the line added in the latest draft
> also marked).
>
> I propose we resolve this issue at the 19 Sept WSS call, since that
> should allow better information regarding the status of xml:id
> reaching W3C Recommendation status (earliest date of Recommendation
> is 9 September).
>
> regards, Frederick
>
> Frederick Hirsch
> Nokia
>
>
> [1] http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/wss/download.php/
> 13961/wss-v1.1-spec-draft-SOAPMessageSecurity-01.pdf


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
generates this mail. You may a link to this group and all your TCs in OASIS
at:
https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php