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Subject: FW: Teleconference Minutes 2001-07-26


Teleconference Meeting Minutes
26 July 2001, 07:00 - 08:15 Pacific Time

Summary

Adoption of a scope for XACML v.10 was discussed. Voting was postponed
pending further clarification of what is meant by "model" and "metapolicy".
A short term meeting and action item schedule was adopted. Planning for the
next F2F commenced.

Raw minutes authored by Ken Yagen can be found at
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200107/msg00056.html.

Action Items

Fred Moses to post F2F slides to list
Simon Blackwell to ask Michiharu to post MPEG requirements to site
Fred Moses, Hal Lockhart, Chris McLaren, and Thomas Hardjono to check with
their employers about F2F sponsorship for the week of September 10th

Details

Note: Times are approximate. No time marks exist in raw minutes.
 
07:00 - 07:05 Roll Call (Ken Yagen)

Voting Members

Adams,Carlisle		Entrust
Blackwell,Simon		Psoom
Damiani,Ernesto		University of Milan
Damodaran,Suresh		Sterling Commerce
Edwards,Nigel		HP
Hardjono,Thomas		Verisign
Hodges,Jeff			Oblix
Kudoh,Michiharu		IBM
Lockhart,Hal		Entegrity
McLaren,Christopher	Netegrity
Moses,Fred			Entitlenet
Moses,Tim			Entrust
Parducci,Bill		Self
Pilz,Gilbert		Jamcracker
Yagen,Ken			Crosslogix

A quorum of 16 voting members present.
		
Prospective Members 

Flinn,Don			Hitachi	
*Garimella,Sandilya	BEA
*Godik,Simon		Crosslogix
*Rouault,Jason		HP
*Samarati,Pierangela	University of Milan
			
Those marked with an * will be voting members during the next meeting or
call.

07:05 - 07:10 Agenda

Simon Blackwell apologized for late agenda and incorrect dates in schedule
posted with the agenda. Agenda adopted with no objections after a brief
discussion of the correct dates and a commitment to return to the calendar
topic later in call.

07:10 - 07:45 F2F Minutes Discussion

Action items from the F2F: 

Sandyila Garimiela - Got list of issue from Suresh and will update his list
with those and those he collected from face to face.
Dave Parrot - Posted slides to site. Simon Blackwell to check and see about
his commitment to post MPEG requirements.
Fred Moses - Reconfirmed he will post his slides.
Jeff Hodges - Still working on RFC 3060 issues list based on comments from
one of its authors.
Tim Moses - Sent slides to Ken, should probably sent to someone else
Simon - Send materials to Micharharu for addition to website. Or link when
appropriate.

Tabled issue from F2F:

"Creation of a policy expression language based on a formal model that which
when evaluated in the context of a specific metapolicy will be
deterministic. We will at least define 1 metapolicy that is mandatory to
implement." as our primary goal for XACML v1.0. Note this excludes any real
work on protocols.

After a brief replay of the F2F conversation Jeff Hodges suggested it might
be too early to vote in the statement since "metapolicy" required more
definition and the need to include or exclude it is not yet clear. Consensus
apparent and voting tabled pending further exploration/discussion.

A discussion regarding the meaning of "formal model" ensued. Jeff Hodges
allowed as he had been using the term "formal model" too loosely.  Several
qualifiers were proposed for the term model, i.e. "abstract",
"implementation", "security", 'access control". Everyone seemed to get the
type of model we need, i.e. a textual and UML description similar to 3060,
but no-one was particularly happy with any of the options discussed.
Consensus that we don't want to shoot for a proper formal, i.e. provable
mathematical or logical model, at this stage. Topic left for further
thought.

More discussion of "metapolicy" ensued. For the most part this was a replay
of discussion at the F2F. Hal Lockhart has not been present for F2F the
discussion and voiced some objections based on complexity and confusion they
may add to XACML at the potential risk of making the language unintelligible
to humans. Simon Blackwell asked that the discussion be continued on the
list. Jeff Hodges concluded by saying we will have to decide if we support
explicit metapolicy or by default we WILL end up with an implicit metapolicy
and work from there.

07:45 - 07:55 Discussion of TC Schedule

Simon Blackwell - Read schedule with corrected dates from this meeting's
agenda:

1. All policy model references to be submitted to the list by 2001-08-01.
2. All use case proposals to be submitted to the list by 2001-08-01
3. Concall on 2001-07-26 to cover schedule issues
4. Concall on 2001-08-09 to cover use cases
5. Concall on 2001-08-23 to cover policy models

Clarified that use case date doesn't mean they have to be fully worked out,
just initial submission is necessary. A motion was made and seconded to
adopt the schedule. No discussion, no objections, no abstentions. Motion
passed.

07:55 - 0:800 Next F2F

A brief discussion about dates and costs  occurred. Consensus on the week of
September 10th was reached.  Fred Moses, Hal Lockhart, Chris McLaren, Bruce
???, and Thomas Hardjono said they would check with their employers. Hal
Lockhart suggested a potential cost split between all vendors. Simon
Blackwell also suggested that we could all pay a $100 attendance fee if
necessary.

08:00 Motion to adjourn. 	

Simon Y. Blackwell 
CTO 
Psoom, Inc. 
Voice & Fax: 415-762-9787 



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