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Subject: Re: [xacml] F2F proposed agenda updated
Bill, I don't expect that we will be able to close the issue in an one hour session, but I hope that we could make some basic decisions, like "there will be three independent schemes" or "scope = EntireHierachy is malplaced", etc. I could then refactor the documents into new forms which better isolates discussion to more specific issues. Also, I think there are dependencies between the issues so we cannot really close them until we have decided on them all. For instance, regular xpath based policies have many open issues and we need to work on that. It is also the case that multiple xpath decisions also have issues. I think the solutions are going to partially overlap, but the discussion becomes confusing if we do both at once. By doing a short session on the merits of the various proposals on single xpath decisioning use cases, we can avoid the complexities of multiple decisions in the discussion. After we have working solutions on both, we can see what features are common. Just for instance. The months long debate has been difficult to some degree I think because too many and broad issues have been discussed at once. I am just hoping to clear things up a bit before we tackle the really hard issues. If you think long sessions would work better, then I am open to it. In any case we are not going to be able to solve anything unless we have concrete proposals ready. If we think about how many open issues we have and how many hours 2,5 - 3 days are, then it's clear that we don't have many hours per issue. And we have easily spent the full TC call discussing a single issue in the past. So making the F2F a success call for good preparations. The proposals list was one attempt of preparing the F2F. So we can start making decisions, rather than understanding the proposals. I think the biggest unknowns currently are the xpath issues, so that should probably have a lot of time on the agenda. (I didn't really check what each issue number was about when I did the revised agenda. I just moved the items around.) But I think there are good ideas out there, for instance the original offset discussions and Pauls latest emails, though I think these proposals need to be tweaked a bit. Best regards, Erik On 2009-12-02 17:04, bill parducci wrote: > I am open to any configuration the TC comes up with but I think it is highly optimistic to think that "first decisions" will come out of 1 hour and 15 minutes of discussion on issues 11& 16, and then closure after another 1:15 session--particular given that these issue have been open and hotly debated for several months. > > b > > On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:53 AM, Erik Rissanen wrote: > > >> All, >> >> Currently the proposed agenda is very "waterfall" formatted. First we do core, then hierarchical, then multiple. I think it would be better to interleave the issues across several iterations. That way I could push out updated working drafts during the days to clear up wording issues, etc, across multiple iterations. I am afraid that a "big bang" attempt to solve the thorny issues are going to take up all the time unless we section them up into smaller pieces which get written down in a working draft for common understanding. >> >> >> Tuesday - December 8 >> >> 9:00 - 9:15: Roll, administrivia, agenda review >> 9:15 - 9:30 Discuss process, reqs for Issues 29, 30, 31 >> 9:30 - 10:30 Issues 3, 4 (core): first decisions >> 10:30 - 10:45 Break >> 10:45 - 12:00 Issues 11, 16 (Hierarchical): first decisions >> 12:00 - 1:00 Lunch >> 1:00 - 2:30 Issues 19, 23, 25, 26, 61 (Multi-resource): first decisions >> 2:30 - 2:45 Break >> 2:45 - 5:00 Issue 60 (Profile relationship): first outline >> 5:00 Recess >> >> Wednesday - December 9 >> >> 8:00 - 8:30 Review& Agenda confirmation >> 8:30 - 10:30 Issues 3, 4 (core): closing >> 10:30 - 10:45 Break >> 10:45 - 12:00 Issues 11, 16 (Hierarchical): closing >> 12:00 - 1:00 Lunch >> 1:00 - 2:30 Issues 19, 23, 25, 26, 61 (Multi-resource): closing >> 2:30 - 2:45 Break >> 2:45 - 4:30 Issue 60 (Profile relationship): closing >> 4:30 - 5:00 Planning the next day >> 5:00 Recess >> >> Hopefully we can spend the third day on future work. >> >> I hope to be able to prepare new drafts during the night Tu-We or maybe during the daytime breaks. >> >> I haven't redone the agenda on the wiki yet. Thought I'll post my proposal here first for some feedback. >> >> To prepare, I think it would be good if we all arrive at the F2F with a ready list of current/competing proposals on all the issues so we are all understand the proposals and so we can dig straight in. I will start another thread for calling for enumeration of proposals. I will collect a first version of the list myself. >> >> Best regards, >> Erik >> >> >> >> On 2009-11-30 14:12, Tyson, Paul H wrote: >> >>> I suggest grouping all the xpath-related issues together for discussion >>> at once. That would cover issues 3, 11, 16, 61, 62, and my recent >>> proposal that does not have an issue number yet >>> (http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200911/msg00072.html). This >>> could take several sessions. >>> >>> --Paul >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: bill parducci [mailto:bill@parducci.net] >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 09:29 >>>> To: XACML TC >>>> Subject: [xacml] F2F proposed agenda updated >>>> >>>> I have updated the proposed agenda for the F2F to begin >>>> assigning time blocks to specific topics. Note that this >>>> agenda calls for the TC meeting scheduled for December 10th >>>> to be moved back 1 hour. The idea here is to allow the >>>> meeting to coincide with the F2F time boundaries and to >>>> provide a specific point at which official TC business may >>>> occur (voting, etc.) >>>> >>>> http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xacml/MeetingAgenda >>>> >>>> Please review the agenda and provide comments/suggestions to the list. >>>> >>>> thanks >>>> >>>> b >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS >>>> TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your >>>> TCs in OASIS at: >>>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgr >>>> >>>> >>> oups.php >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >>> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >>> >>> >>> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >> >
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