RE: [xliff] Minutes of the XLIFF TC July 9th. 2002

[Mark Levins/Ireland/IBM <mark_levins@ie.ibm.com>]

Hi Christian,

In the following untranslated XLIFF excerpt there are two terms, both "View Properties"; consider the case where the first means 'the properties of a view' and the second means and should be translated as 'look at the properties of a selected object'. Without the contextual information provided, translators and translation recovery applications would most probably translate both cases to the same translation, which would be wrong in most languages other than English.

        ...<trans-unit id="00343EA980256C06">
                    <source>View Properties</source>
                    <target>View Properties</target>
                    <context-group name="Term Context Information" >
                         <context context-type="Database">Discussion - Notes &amp; Web (6)</context>
                         <context context-type="Element">Forms</context>
                         <context context-type="ElementTitle">(ProfileDisplay)</context>
                         <context context-type="Record">Field Default Value Formula</context>
                         <context context-type="RecordTitle">Categories</context>
                    </context-group>
               </trans-unit>
               <trans-unit id="00343BBB80256C06">
                    <source>View Properties</source>
                    <target>View Properties</target>
                    <context-group name="Term Context Information" >
                         <context context-type="Database">Discussion - Notes &amp; Web (6)</context>
                         <context context-type="Element">Views</context>
                         <context context-type="ElementTitle">Interest Profile</context>
                         <context context-type="Record">Action Title</context>
                    </context-group>
               </trans-unit>...

I had a look at the working draft spec again and ultimately I think that the comment for <context> should suffice "The purpose of this context information is to allow certain pieces of text to have different translations depending on where they came from. The translation of a piece of text may differ if it is a web form or a dialog or an Oracle form or a Lotus form for example. This information is thus required by a translator when working on the file. Likewise, the information may be used by any tool proposing to automatically leverage the text successfully.". We could duplicate this for the 'context-type' attribute or add a referral back to the 'context' element.

Regards,
Mark

"Lieske, Christian" <christian.lieske@sap.com> 07/30/02 01:03 PM

To:        Mark Levins/Ireland/IBM@LOTUSINT         cc:                 Subject:        RE: [xliff] Minutes of the XLIFF TC July 9th. 2002

Hi  Mark,
 
You wrote  'Perhaps a simple example of the usage of <context> would  prove more useful', and I share your  feeling.
Would it be  possible for you, to provide a couple of examples?
 
Best,
Christian
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Levins/Ireland/IBM  [mailto:mark_levins@ie.ibm.com]
Sent: Dienstag, 30. Juli 2002  13:03
To: Peter Reynolds <Peter.Reynolds
Cc:  xliff@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [xliff] Minutes of the XLIFF  TC July 9th. 2002



Hi Peter  et al, 

I missed the meeting but from  the minutes see my action item. 
The  minutes state that I need to supply more information for 'content-type',  however, assuming a typo, I'll make a quick explanation for the 'context-type'  attribute of the 'context' element which I requested in XLIFF. 
Within IBM, during the localisation of Domino  applications, translatable terms may appear in many possible locations and  without a definite resourcing strategy. The context element allows us to locate  a term to a specific location in a database and therefore provide a different  contextual translation to a similar term where needed. 
I'm also guessing that the context of the conversation  during the last meeting was in relation to open or closed lists, and (if so) I  would suggest that this list be left open altogether and remove the existant  defaults. The original list was somewhat a compromised catch-all that was  agreeable to both me and to the rest of the group, and I think they are probably  a little misleading to others on reading the specification. Perhaps a simple  example of the usage of <context> would prove more useful.  

If I've misunderstood what was needed of me  in this mail, please let me know. 

Regards, 
Mark  

P.S. For anyone interested, the  <context> element can also be useful when extracting localisable text from  property bundle files withing JAR or CAB files to XLIFF i.e. the context being  used to identify the bundle file and the resource ID for the translatable  term

Peter Reynolds  <Peter.Reynolds@Berlitz.ie>   07/26/02 02:37 PM

To:         xliff@lists.oasis-open.org         cc:                   Subject:         [xliff] Minutes of the XLIFF TC July 9th.  2002

Hi  all,

Minutes of last Tuesday's meeting is  below.
Thanks to Tony for his help with these  minutes.

Peter.

Minutes of the XLIFF TC July 9th. 2002
1/ Attendance:  Tony  Jewtushenko, Christian Lieske, Enda McDonnell, John
Reid, Peter Reynolds,  Yves Savourel, Gérard Cattin des Bois, David Pooley.
Apologies: Jonathan  Clark, John Corrigan, Reinhard Schaler, Mark Levins, Mat
Lovatt.
2/  Minutes of the last meeting were agreed as a correct record.
3/ Charter  clarification.
The proposed new wording of the charter was agreed by 12 votes  for and 2
abstentions. Both abstentions were late votes.
Tony pointed out  that Oasis refer to this changing of the wording as
clarification and not  changing it.
3/ Migration policy
Tony introduced a discussion on the  remaining issues with the migration
policy.
We will publish a migration  statement as part of the version 1.1 release.
XSLTs will not be part of the  'official' release but may be provided as
samples.
Tony will send a  revised version of the migration document to the group.
This will go to an  email vote for approval.
Tony raised the issue of education and publicity and  said he was willing to
draft a presentation on behalf of the TC. Peter and  Enda volunteered to
help.
4/  XLIFF 1.1 work in  progress:
Formalized Extensibility
Yves presented the proposal on Formal  Extensibility.
Christian will send a proposal for dealing with datatype and  mimetype.
(general comment): It was agreed that each of the presently open  enumerated
lists would be extended and left open.
content-type - assumed  to be needed by Mark Levins - the group was not
certain of precisely how the  list is used in real life - need input from
Mark (and anyone else who uses  this) as to what the list should look like.
ctype, mtype lists : review,  comment and add as much to this list as
possible, and leave it open.
state  - state names in the spec are not complete, and must be extended, but
must  remain open. It was agreed that the list of states would not be
possible to  close due to the nature and complexity of a localisation process
in  particular and workflow in general. Gerard agreed to submit a "straw  man"
list of values, and Christian will investigate if LISA has a  subcommittee
that has produced a list.
Embedded XLIFF - deferred until  next meeting.
Working Draft - deferred until next meeting.
5/ LISA  European Conference: we will try to arrange a limited face-to-face
meeting  during our usual timeslot, if enough people attending the LISA
conference  would have time to do so. Please inform Tony J. if you have
definite  intentions to attend the LISA conference.
6/ Next meeting will be Tuesday, 6  August 2002 at 4PM Europe/London/Dublin /
8AM PST. Tony J. will be absent,  and will arrange for Jonathan Clarke to
chair the meeting, or if not  available, Peter or Yves.
John Reid made a motion to adjourn the meeting and  Enda seconded.



Peter Reynolds,  Software Development Manager, Berlitz GlobalNET
3, West Pier Business Campus,  Dun Laoghaire, Co. Dublin, Ireland
Tel: +353-1-202-1280
Fax: +353-1-  202-1299
Web Site: http//www.berlitzglobalnet.com
"Don't just translate  it, BerlitzIT" http//www.berlitzIT.com



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