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Subject: RE: [xliff] Ballot is open to voting members
Hi Robin, Thanks for taking the time to clearly explain this situation. It seems all is in order and accounted for. I just have one small remaining curiosity. You mention in your note that eligible voters *are* notified, and that other TC members are not: > Kavi (as configured) does not notify the TC > when a TC ballot has been opened. ONLY the eligible > voting members are notified -- or rather, the persons > identified as "eligible" in the ballot. My motivation for sending a separate note to the list to announce the ballot was that I did not see any evidence that even the eligible members were notified. It seemed to me that after I initiated the ballot - nobody (including the eligible members) received notification. So here's a question to the voting TC members: did any/all of you get a notification that the ballot had begun (besides my side note)? If the answer is no, that means kavi may have a more serious bug than you described, Robin. If the answer is yes, perhaps that means that only the ballot initiator does not get a notification (which is a bit clunky, but not the end of the world). Thanks, Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Robin Cover [mailto:robin@oasis-open.org] Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 11:25 AM To: Schnabel, Bryan S Cc: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org; Robin Cover; Chet Ensign Subject: Re: [xliff] Ballot is open to voting members Bryan, I just noticed your bewilderment [1] about Kavi not sending the TC a notification message that your TC Ballot had been opened, and your self-doubt about possible incorrect gestures in ballot setup, needing Kavi training, etc: > I don't think I'm doing anything incorrectly - but maybe > I need to go back to kavi training - sure seeing a lot of > unexpected results Not your fault! I made cursory inspection of the ballot you set up (from the Kavi point of view) and scan of the related email messages to the TC [3]. It appears to me that you set up the ballot exactly right, and that you did nothing incorrectly. I have copied out the ballot details below [2] for XLIFF TC members to inspect, including the list of persons reckoned as eligible to vote. From inspection of the TC list messages (initial motion, motion revised to clarify that a TC Liaison with the XLIFF TC is desired, preliminary nomination of someone to serve as the liaison for the TC) it appears that the process for creating the TC Liaison you want is now underway via the TC Ballot: http://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/liaison#tcliaison As to Kavi: Bryan, you are not the first person to be surprised by the fact that Kavi (as configured) does not notify the TC when a TC ballot has been opened. ONLY the eligible voting members are notified -- or rather, the persons identified as "eligible" in the ballot. IMO, that constitutes a significant flaw in the Kavi balloting system (as configured). I can think of many reasons why all TC members should receive an automatic notice from the system (e.g., sent to the TC Members/Observers via the TC list) when a ballot is opened. For one thing: the ballot may have been set up incorrectly e.g., failing to reckon as "eligible" some person or persons who personally believe they ARE eligible to vote in the ballot. If no notification is sent to the entire list, then someone omitted in error (or allegedly in error) does not have predictable opportunity to even know that a ballot is underway, and to notice the omission. A workaround sometimes used by TC Admin may provide a model for you as Chair in the XLIFF TC. When we set up a Special Majority ballot for the TC e.g., for Committee Specification approval, we: a) create the ballot in Kavi b) wait for notice to be sent back to the ballot creator via email message c) forward that email message (or send equivalent email message annotated) to the TC list -- where the message contains the text of the ballot and identifies the eligible voting members for that ballot, as reckoned d) explicitly invite all TC members to review the ballot text for correctness of the motion and for the list of eligible voters, asking for corrections that might need to be made, if any I'll try to raise the (Kavi) notification issue with other OASIS Staff to see if improvements ( at least as ballot set options) can be made in the new/upcoming "Kavi 5" rollout. Robin Cover OASIS [1] Bryan's note about ballot notification ============== http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201105/msg00036.html Subject: Ballot is open to voting members From: "Schnabel, Bryan S" <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com> To: "xliff@lists.oasis-open.org" <xliff@lists.oasis-open.org> Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 09:36:42 -0700 Hello TC, It seems kavi did not send a notice out yesterday that I had initiated a ballot on Helena's behalf (seconded by Peter). Thus, please consider this the request that eligible voting member go to http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/ballots.php and cast your vote on the open ballot. (I don't think I'm doing anything incorrectly - but maybe I need to go back to kavi training - sure seeing a lot of unexpected results) - Bryan [2] Ballot details ============================= XLIFF Ballot http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/ballot.php?id=2027 http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ballot.php?id=2027 Ballot Details Should the XLIFF TC provide a Unicode representative? The XLIFF TC shall elect a representative from OASIS XLIFF TC to Unicode for the formal liaison membership between Unicode Consortium and the OASIS XLIFF TC. "Yes" means wish the TC to hold an election / "No" means wish the TC to not hold an election. [ ] Yes [ ] No [ ] Abstain Opening: Friday, 6 May 2011 @ 17:30 ET Closing: Thursday, 12 May 2011 @ 17:30 ET Eligible Voting Members listed Voting Details Yves Savourel ENLASO Corporation David Walters IBM Helena Chapman IBM Bryan Schnabel* Individual Lucia Morado Vazquez Localisation Research Centre* David Filip Localisation Research Centre* Rodolfo Raya Maxprograms Peter Reynolds Polish Association of Translation Agencies... Christian Lieske SAP AG* Andrew Swift SDL International* [3] earlier postings on topic ============================= http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201105/msg00030.html Subject: Motion to conduct an electronic ballot From: "Schnabel, Bryan S" <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com> To: "xliff@lists.oasis-open.org" <xliff@lists.oasis-open.org> Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 12:57:41 -0700 Hello TC voting members, Helena has proposed a ballot that we "Elect a representative from OASIS XLIFF TC to Unicode for the formal liaison membership between Unicode Consortium and OASIS." Further details are contained in the attached thread. Per the OASIS policy (http://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/tc-process#voting ), I invite any eligible voting member to second Helena's motion. Normally the motion to hold an electronic ballot must be made in a TC meeting. But I will use the clause that our TC " has adopted a standing rule to allow this motion to be made on the TC's general email list." As soon as I receive a second, I will set up the ballot in kavi (in accordance with our TC's standing custom). Per the OASIS policy, the ballot period will be seven days (this is the minimum duration). At the conclusion a simple majority will either pass or not pass the proposal. Followups: -------------- http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201105/msg00032.html Subject: RE: [xliff] Motion to conduct an electronic ballot From: "Peter Reynolds" <p.reynolds@maart.pl> To: "Schnabel, Bryan S" <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com>,<xliff@lists.oasis-open.org> Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 22:15:40 +0200 Hi Bryan, I am happy to second this but I think that we make sure this is a formal liaison between Unicode Consortium and OASIS XLIFF TC and not just with OASIS. It the liaison was just with OASIS we should consult Jamie Clark. I would also like to nominate David Filip as the liaison if this motion is passed. Thannks and I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend, Peter. ------------------------ http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201105/msg00033.html Subject: RE: [xliff] Motion to conduct an electronic ballot From: "Schnabel, Bryan S" <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com> To: Peter Reynolds <p.reynolds@maart.pl>, Helena S Chapman<hchapman@us.ibm.com> Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 13:40:25 -0700 Hi Helena, Peter seconds, but would like to add the specific reference to XLIFF. Is this wording acceptable to you: "Elect a representative from OASIS XLIFF TC to Unicode for the formal liaison membership between Unicode Consortium and the OASIS XLIFF TC." If so I will initiate that ballot. Thanks, Bryan ------------------------ http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201105/msg00034.html Subject: RE: [xliff] Motion to conduct an electronic ballot From: Helena S Chapman <hchapman@us.ibm.com> To: "Schnabel, Bryan S" <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com> Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:12:12 -0400 Sounds good to me or "okie, dokie". ------------------------ On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Schnabel, Bryan S <bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com> wrote: > Hello TC, > > It seems kavi did not send a notice out yesterday that I had initiated a ballot on Helena's behalf (seconded by Peter). > > Thus, please consider this the request that eligible voting member go to http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/ballots.php and cast your vote on the open ballot. > > (I don't think I'm doing anything incorrectly - but maybe I need to go back to kavi training - sure seeing a lot of unexpected results) > > - Bryan > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > > -- Robin Cover OASIS, Director of Information Services Editor, Cover Pages and XML Daily Newslink Email: robin@oasis-open.org Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/ Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html Tel: +1 972-296-1783
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