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Subject: RE: [xri] Proposal for _xrd_r parameter and return format


Agreed. NOT_IMPLEMENTED it is!

=wil (http://xri.net/=wil)
 
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Drummond Reed [mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 5:59 PM
> To: xri@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [xri] Proposal for _xrd_r parameter and return format
> 
> Nope, I think you're right, generic is better. Given the HTTP pattern,
do
> you prefer NOT_IMPLEMENTED over NOT_SUPPORTED?
> 
> I like the semantics of the former a little better because the latter
may
> sound like the feature is not supported by the *protocol*, while the
> former
> makes it clear that it is not implemented by the implementation.
> 
> =Drummond
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tan, William [mailto:William.Tan@neustar.biz]
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:55 PM
> To: Drummond Reed; xri@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [xri] Proposal for _xrd_r parameter and return format
> 
> I was thinking that it would be a generic "feature not
> supported/implemented" code (similar to HTTP 501 Not Implemented),
> though I'm not sure what other use cases there are for it.
> 
> If you think that it is better to have a specific code for _xrd_r,
> that's fine with me too.
> 
> =wil (http://xri.net/=wil)
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Drummond Reed [mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 5:24 PM
> > To: xri@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: RE: [xri] Proposal for _xrd_r parameter and return format
> >
> > Agreed. Should it be 212 RETURN_NOT_SUPPORTED?
> >
> > =Drummond
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chasen, Les [mailto:les.chasen@neustar.biz]
> > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 9:09 PM
> > To: Tan, William; Drummond Reed; xri@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: RE: [xri] Proposal for _xrd_r parameter and return format
> >
> > This makes sense if we are going to have optional behavior in
> resolvers.
> >
> >
> > I-Name:  =les.chasen
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tan, William
> > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:35 PM
> > To: Drummond Reed; Chasen, Les; xri@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: RE: [xri] Proposal for _xrd_r parameter and return format
> >
> > If the _xrd_r parameter is optional, I propose to add a separate
error
> > code for rejecting the request 212 NOT_SUPPORTED.
> >
> > When these types of error occurs (where the query failed to
resolve),
> > should the XRD element have the entire QXRI in the <Query> content
or
> > just the first subsegment of the QXRI?
> >
> > =wil (http://xri.net/=wil)
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Drummond Reed [mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net]
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 4:01 PM
> > > To: Chasen, Les; xri@lists.oasis-open.org
> > > Subject: RE: [xri] Proposal for _xrd_r parameter and return format
> > >
> > > Returning a "mini" or "stripped down" XRDS is certainly an option.
> If
> > we
> > > went that direction, though, returning just an XRD document might
be
> > > preferable. That way we still get the advantage of nothing needing
> to
> > > change
> > > in the schema, and CanonicalID staying where it is, but the client
> > > receiving
> > > just the final XRD and just the selected service endpoint.
> > >
> > > URIs would still be "fully exploded" per my earlier message.
> > >
> > > Example:
> > >
> > > <XRD xlmns="xri://$xrd*($v*2.0)">
> > > 	<CanonicalID>xri://=!A1B2.C3D4</CanonicalID>
> > > 	<Service >
> > > 		<ProviderID>xri://!!1000!1234.5678</ProviderID>
> > > 		<Type select="true">xri://+contact*($v*1.0)</Type>
> > > 		<Path match="null" />
> > > 		<URI
> > >
> >
>
priority="10">http://example.com/contact/=!A1B2.C3D4?id=xri://@foo</URI>
> > > 		<URI
> > >
> >
>
priority="15">http://alt.example.com/contact/=!A1B2.C3D4?id=xri://@foo</
> > UR
> > > I>
> > >
> > > <URI>https://example.com/contact/=!A1B2.C3D4?id=xri://@foo</URI>
> > > 	</Service>
> > > </XRD>
> > >
> > > What does everyone think?
> > >
> > > =Drummond
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Chasen, Les [mailto:les.chasen@neustar.biz]
> > > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 7:05 PM
> > > To: Drummond Reed; xri@lists.oasis-open.org
> > > Subject: RE: [xri] Proposal for _xrd_r parameter and return format
> > >
> > > It sounds confusing because some times I see it outside a service
> > block
> > > and sometimes I see it inside.  BTW, if a client can parse a
service
> > > block why can't it just parse the xrds?  How about we return an
XRDS
> > > document that simply includes the data points you want?  In this
> case
> > > the XRDS would not include the many XRDs or SEPs that were
returned
> in
> > > authority resolution.  It would just return the CanonicalIds and
> > service
> > > block.
> > >
> > >
> > > I-Name:  =les.chasen
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Drummond Reed [mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net]
> > > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 9:43 PM
> > > To: Chasen, Les; xri@lists.oasis-open.org
> > > Subject: RE: [xri] Proposal for _xrd_r parameter and return format
> > >
> > > Les,
> > >
> > > Since Steve is out today I spoke with Andy Dale to better
understand
> > the
> > > use
> > > case.
> > >
> > > It turns out that ooTao does not have a strong use case for
> increasing
> > > CanonicalID granularity, i.e., provisioning a CanonicalID directly
> > with
> > > a
> > > service endpoint vs. the entire XRD. However Andy agreed that
> > > CanonicalID
> > > would be a very useful child element of Service in a service
> endpoint
> > > output
> > > document because it allows all the information relevant to a
> selected
> > > service endpoint to be packaged and returned in a single Service
> > > element.
> > >
> > > This then would be consistent across both a native client resolver
> API
> > > and a
> > > proxy resolver interface.
> > >
> > > So the rule would be simply to return CanonicalID(s) as a child
> > element
> > > of
> > > Service when return of a service endpoint is requested vs. return
of
> > the
> > > entire XRD.
> > >
> > > How does that sound?
> > >
> > > =Drummond
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Chasen, Les [mailto:les.chasen@neustar.biz]
> > > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 6:10 PM
> > > To: Drummond Reed; xri@lists.oasis-open.org
> > > Subject: RE: [xri] Proposal for _xrd_r parameter and return format
> > >
> > > On number 1 I am neutral (not in favor of but not against) as long
> as
> > it
> > > is optional.
> > >
> > > On number 3 ... wow that sounds like a totally new
> requirement/usecase
> > > that has nothing to do with a proxy server having a more robust
> > > interface.  Why do we need a canonicalid with finer granularity?
> What
> > > does override mean?
> > >
> > > I see the following two possible test cases.
> > >
> > > 1. If I have the following XRDS
> > >
> > > <XRDS>
> > > ....
> > > <CanoncialId> foo </canonicalid>
> > > <service>
> > > ...
> > > </service>
> > > </xrds>
> > >
> > > Then the proxy server would return
> > > <service>
> > > <CanoncialId> foo </canonicalid>
> > > ...
> > > </service>
> > >
> > > IMHO this is confusing.
> > >
> > > 2. If I have the following XRDS
> > >
> > > <XRDS>
> > > ...
> > > <canonicalId> foo </canonicalid>
> > > <service>
> > > <canonicalid> bar </caonnonicalid>
> > > ...
> > > </service>
> > >
> > > What does this mean?
> > >
> > > I think we need to understand the requirement here.  Can someone
> > please
> > > explain the usecase?
> > >
> > >
> > > I-Name:  =les.chasen
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Drummond Reed [mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net]
> > > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 6:35 PM
> > > To: Chasen, Les; xri@lists.oasis-open.org
> > > Subject: RE: [xri] Proposal for _xrd_r parameter and return format
> > >
> > > Les, see replies inline marked ###.
> > >
> > > =Drummond
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Chasen, Les [mailto:les.chasen@neustar.biz]
> > > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 2:12 PM
> > > To: Drummond Reed; xri@lists.oasis-open.org
> > > Subject: RE: [xri] Proposal for _xrd_r parameter and return format
> > >
> > > I have a few comments.
> > >
> > > 1. I am not in favor of adding this capability to the spec for
http
> > > proxy resolution servers.  I feel that the capabilities already
> > provided
> > > for in the spec allow implementers to build edge resolution
services
> > > that support this type of functionality.  I think implementers who
> > need
> > > this type of functionality should be encouraged to write to
> > programmatic
> > > interfaces not http proxy resolution servers.
> > >
> > > ### Ironically, this is a programmatic interface. It's a web
service
> > (in
> > > the
> > > broad definition of XML-over-HTTP.) But you're right that it's one
> > > that's
> > > better suited to the edges of the network than the core. ###
> > >
> > > 2. If you guys want to add this then this has to be optional
> behavior.
> > > We discussed this on the call but I don't see it documented.
> > >
> > > ### My fault for not noting it -- this was just meant to be the
> > > technical
> > > proposal, not the full text going in the spec. It will be
documented
> > as
> > > optional. ###
> > >
> > > 3. This proposal is adding CanonicalId to the service block.  Is
> this
> > > only used in the service block under these circumstances?  If so
is
> > that
> > > going to add confusion?  I think it might because sometimes I will
> see
> > > the canonical id in a service block sometimes I will see it
outside
> > the
> > > service block depending on what I ask for.
> > >
> > > ### No, it's not just for this proposal. It solves another
problem,
> > > which is
> > > how you can specify a CanonicalID at a lower level of granularity
-
> > the
> > > service level instead of the XRD level. The CanonicalID at the XRD
> > level
> > > is
> > > very useful but this gives you a way to override it at the Service
> > level
> > > if
> > > needed. ###
> > >
> > > ### END ###
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Drummond Reed [mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net]
> > > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 4:33 PM
> > > To: xri@lists.oasis-open.org
> > > Subject: [xri] Proposal for _xrd_r parameter and return format
> > >
> > > Per my second action item from yesterday's TC call minutes, this
is
> a
> > > proposal to add an _xrd_r (Return) input parameter to XRI
Resolution
> > 2.0
> > > Working Draft 10.
> > >
> > > Background: this originated in the decision that the standard
output
> > of
> > > XRI
> > > resolution when service endpoint selection is requested should be
> not
> > > just a
> > > prioritized list of URIs, but also a prioritized list of
> CanonicalIDs,
> > > so
> > > that XRD authors have the ability to tell consuming applications
the
> > > identifier(s) they should use for a resource at a specific service
> > > endpoint.
> > >
> > > It's easy to see how such a return value can be returned via a
local
> > XRI
> > > resolver API, and that's out of scope for the spec. But it raised
> the
> > > question of how such a result could be returned via an XRI proxy
> > > resolver
> > > which has only an HTTP interface, and which is in scope of the
spec.
> > >
> > > The proposed solution is two parts:
> > >
> > > PART ONE: _XRD_R PARAMETER
> > >
> > > Like _xrd_n, the _xrd_r (Return) parameter would be a Boolean
flag.
> > The
> > > default if it is omitted or its value is null is the implied value
> of
> > > "false", which means the return type is be governed by the _xrd_m
> > > (MediaType) attribute.
> > >
> > > If _xrd_r="true", then the resolver MUST return an XML document
> > > consisting
> > > of only the selected service endpoint (part two).
> > >
> > > PART TWO: SERVICE ENDPOINT DESCRIPTOR
> > >
> > > 2) To keep it as simple as possible, the proposed return format if
> > > _xrd_r="true is an XML document that reuses the
xri://$xrd*($v*2.0)
> > XML
> > > namespace and just contains the selected Service element.
Following
> is
> > a
> > > example:
> > >
> > > <Service xlmns="xri://$xrd*($v*2.0)" >
> > > 	<ProviderID>xri://!!1000!1234.5678</ProviderID>
> > > 	<CanonicalID>xri://=!A1B2.C3D4</CanonicalID>
> > > 	<Type select="true">xri://+contact*($v*1.0)</Type>
> > > 	<Path match="null" />
> > > 	<URI
> > >
> >
>
priority="10">http://example.com/contact/=!A1B2.C3D4?id=xri://@foo</URI>
> > > 	<URI
> > >
> >
>
priority="15">http://alt.example.com/contact/=!A1B2.C3D4?id=xri://@foo</
> > > URI>
> > > 	<URI>https://example.com/contact/=!A1B2.C3D4?id=xri://@foo</URI>
> > > </Service>
> > >
> > > To support this return format would require that we add
CanonicalID
> as
> > > an
> > > optional child of the XRD Service element. This means CanonicalID
> > could
> > > appear at both the XRD level and the Service level exactly the way
> > > ProviderID can currently appear at both levels. This has the
> > additional
> > > benefit of allowing CanonicalID to be expressed on a more granular
> > > service
> > > level rather than just at the XRD level.
> > >
> > > The rule would be that CanonicalID would be used directly if
present
> > in
> > > the
> > > selected Service, or it would be "inherited" from the XRD level if
> it
> > > was
> > > not present for the selected Service. In other words, CanonicalID
at
> > the
> > > XRD
> > > level is the default for every Service unless the Service
overrides
> it
> > > by
> > > including 1+ CanonicalID elements.
> > >
> > > In addition, in a Service document the values of the URI element
> would
> > > be
> > > "fully constructed", i.e., they will have had the "append"
algorithm
> > > executed to produce the final URI.
> > >
> > > ******
> > >
> > > Again, the plan is to incorporate this into ED 07 to close this
> issue,
> > > so
> > > please send feedback on this proposal as soon as you can.
> > >
> > > =Drummond
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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