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Subject: RE: [xri] Use of the word "synonym" in section 10
Les, In addition, your two definitions of
synonymity below have both left out completely the specification of whether
your identifiers are only synonyms with
respect to a given set of resolver input parameters.
~ Steve From: Steven Churchill
[mailto:steven.churchill@xdi.org] Les, I have to apologize for not letting go on
this. (“Letting go” on stuff like this is the primary reason this
TC can be far along in its process without having a clear agreement and
understanding of what constitutes the notions of identifiers, synonymity and
identity.) You said: > Synonyms are to mean things that are the same
identity. Today > http://xri.net/=les
and http://xri.net/=les.chasen and http://xri.net/=!3697.D141.3C5E.742F
> are synonyms because they are all the same identity and
produce the same XRD > except for those variable tags like query. I must restate my point. (At least I am
consistent): The statement that these identifiers are “synonyms
because they are all the same identity” is meaningless outside a model
defining of what constitutes identity. If you want to define a model that says
that “XRI identifiers are synonymous [perhaps with respect to resolver
input parameters?] because XRI resolution produces the same XRD except for
those variable tags like query”, then that is a perfectly fine model and
definition for synonymity. Note, however, that hat it is a different model
altogether from the three models presented in my email to Markus. That is, that
the above XRIs are not
synonyms under any of those models! To summarize and repeat myself:
identifiers cannot be called synonyms outside of a model that establishes the
meaning of synonymity. > I feel I am simplifying to a very straight
forward model. All XRIs that *are* the same identity are
synonymous. You know this because they resolve to the same CID(s).
But you said above that they are synonyms
because “produce the same XRD except for those variable tags like
query.” So now you are suggesting a second model for synonymity and
identity. You cannot have it both ways. Yet another model is that they are only
synonyms if the XRDs pass canonical ID verification. So again, we have three
different models. Certainly you are not proposing that the above XRIs are
synonyms under all three models. ~ Steve From: Chasen, Les
[mailto:les.chasen@neustar.biz] From: Steven Churchill
[mailto:steven.churchill@xdi.org] Les, Yes we agree that the term in used too
often. In my view, I’m trying to eliminate it its use outside of model
that clearly establishes its definition. And thus I find myself needing to be
somewhat pedantic in my response. > from your examples, IMHO
=steve.churchill and =steven.churchill and the CID > that goes with it are synonymous
because they are the same identity. These identifiers cannot be synonymous
outside of a model constituting the definition of synonymity and identity. For
example, three separate models were presented in my previous email to Markus.
The identifiers above may be synonyms in all, some, or none of these models. So
I disagree with you saying that “they are synonymous”. This has no
meaning to me outside you first establishing the model. [Chasen, Les] [Chasen, Les] I am not disagreeing with you on the need for
a model. I laid out my view. > @ootao*steve is a reference that may
be the same person but no one can know that > for sure except you. It is just
a reference between two authorities. > I don’t really care if you want
to call a reference a synonym I just find that that term is used to often. In none of my examples did I say that
@ootao*steve was contained in the value of an xrd:Ref. If I we’re to establish
a reference to @ootao*steve, I would probably opt to use its CID in the xrd:Ref
element anyway. I think that what you are getting at here
is that the value contained in a Ref element could be thought of as a
“synonym” under some particular model of synonymity. Perhaps so,
but if that is how the Resolution Spec decides to employ the term, well, then
that is quite unfortunate, because it prevents or greatly discourages using the
term where it actually provides some real value (such as within the context of
describing the Canonical ID Verification model.) [Chasen, Les] [Chasen, Les] I am saying the value in a Ref is *not* a
synonym. That is however what I thought you said. I think it is a
reference nothing more and nothing less. Synonyms are to mean things that
are the same identity. Today http://xri.net/=les
and http://xri.net/=les.chasen and http://xri.net/=!3697.D141.3C5E.742F
are synonyms because they are all the same identity and produce the same XRD
except for those variable tags like query. In the context that you suggest (and which
the Resolution Spec currently employs), the term only serves to confuse. [Chasen, Les] [Chasen, Les] I feel I am simplifying to a very straight
forward model. All XRIs that *are* the same identity are
synonymous. You know this because they resolve to the same CID(s).
But you seem to think this view has no practical value. ~ Steve From: Steven Churchill
[mailto:steven.churchill@xdi.org] Les, > I agree. I think the word
‘synonym’ has been overused. IMHO, It should be reserved > for inames and inumbers that are in
the same XRD. I think that you are saying that a value of a CanonicalID is
synonymous with the value of LocalID is synonymous with the value of a Ref is
synonymous with the value of a Query given that the values show up in the same
XRD. This definition of “synonym” has no practical
value that I can see. On the other hand, the property of XRI identifier
synonymity is one of XRI Resolution’s most valuable features. I would
hate to “lose” the use of the term by associating it with your
meaning above. ~ Steve From:
markus.sabadello@gmail.com [mailto:markus.sabadello@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Markus Sabadello
On 6/8/07, Steven
Churchill <steven.churchill@xdi.org>
wrote: Drummond,
I don't
understand the use of the term "synonym" in section 10. In
English, if two words are synonyms, then they have the same (or roughly the
same) meaning. In the Identify field, if two identifiers are synonyms, then
they refer to the same identity. As
I try to express in my text for section 11, these concepts are dependent upon
the "model" (or "system") defining the notions of
synonymity and identity. In a Banking system, identifiers may include a
person's name(s) and account number. In that same model, identity may be defined as "the human
being person having a given SSN and DOB". (Don't get confused by the fact
that a SSN is also a type of identifier. That is incidental to the model. We
are talking here about establishing the definition of identity. Once that is done, then Steven
Churchill and Steve Churchill can be synonymous identifiers for the same
identity.) In the XRI Canonical ID Verification model, there is a clear notion
of synonymity and absolute identity. In any case, the model needs to be formally
defined before we can start referring to this thing or that thing as a being a
synonym. A synonym to what? Section
10 introduces the term synonym without establishing a model that defines either
synonymity or identity. As Gabe and others have correctly pointed out, XRI
supports many such models. What are synonyms within one model are not
necessarily synonyms within another model. It
is not helpful to use the term synonym outside a model defining how two
identifiers get mapped to the same identity. ~
Steve
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