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Subject: Re: [xri] XRD delegated identifer element (was part of: questionsabout LRDD / OpenID)
--Apple-Mail-159--281720460 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-158--281721005 --Apple-Mail-158--281721005 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't think delegation is actually asserting a synonym for the =20 identifiers. Consider delegating to a directed identity OP. I am in no way saying =20= the I am me.yahoo.com. I know I have argued against delegating to directed identities. The point being that LocalID is just that the ID I want to use with =20 this service. LocalID is not synonym especially at the target service =20= otherwise you wouldn't need it. I think localID indicates the users self asserted local ID for the =20 service and the protocol can take that for what it is worth. Conventionally if the user puts in the wrong localID they won't have =20 the password to authenticate. It should always be treated as self asserted in a users XRD. Possibly =20= it could be treated as authoritative in other sorts of XRDs but that =20 should be left to the protocol to decide. I am not seeing a problem with the existing LocalID. John B. On 23-Mar-09, at 9:20 PM, Drummond Reed wrote: > > Markus wrote: > > > > My intuitive answer would be that the delegate goes into =20 > XRD:Link:Alias, but I'm probably not really > > so close to this. > > Yes, I had been thinking about the possibility of using =20 > =93XRD:Link:Alias=94 as the new name for =93XRD:Link:LocalID=94 too. > > But here=92s the conceptual problem with that. As currently proposed =20= > in http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/XrdOne/XrdSchema, XRD defines two =20= > elements at the XRD level to express identifiers identifying the =20 > resource described by the XRD: > > 1) XRD:Subject =96 the canonical URI for the resource. > 2) XRD:Alias =96 any other synonymous URI for the resource. > > The problem with using either of the element name =93Subject=94 or =20 > =93Alias=94 at the XRD:Link level is that it can lead to semantic =20 > confusion about whether the element is identifying the canonical ID =20= > or synonym ID of: > > a) The resource that is the target of the link, or > b) The resource described by the XRD _as identified in the context =20 > of_ the resource that is the target of the link. > > The second point is subtle but very important. As an example, say =20 > you have an XRD describing resource A with an XRD:Link to resource =20 > B. Inside this XRD:Link element, there are a total of four logical =20 > options for identifier elements: > > 1) The canonical URI for resource B (the target of the link). > > 2) Any other synonymous URI for resource B. > > 3) The canonical identifier (which may not be a URI) for resource A =20= > _in the context of resource B_, i.e., the canonical identifier by =20 > which resource B identifies resource A. > > 4) Any other synonymous identifier (which may not be a URI) for =20 > resource A _in the context of resource B_, i.e., any other =20 > identifier by which resource B identifies resource A. > > Note that (1) is already recognized as a key use case for XRD 1.0, =20 > and that (3) is the well-know delegated identifier use case for =20 > OpenID. (2) and (4) are less compelling use cases, and thus may not =20= > warrant a standard XRD element (but don=92t be surprised if they crop =20= > up). > > So even if we limit our scope to (1) and (3), that means that we =20 > need _two_ child elements of <XRD:Link> that express: > > * the canonical URI for resource B (the target of the link), AND > * The canonical identifier by which resource B identifies resource A. > > That=92s the semantics we need to express as clearly as possible in =20= > the element names. In other words, were we to =93spell them out =20 > clearly=94, these two element names might be: > > 1) <XRD:Link:Canonical-URI-For-Link-Target-Resource> > 2) <XRD:Link:Canonical-URI-For-XRD-Subject-In-Context-Of-Link-Target-=20= > Resource> > > If we agree those are the correct semantics, we just need to figure =20= > out the best short names that capture those semantics. Here=92s one =20= > suggestion (but my no means the only one): > > 1) <XRD:Link:Object> This follows from RDF semantics. If the RDF =20 > subject of an XRD has the element name <XRD:Subject>, and each RDF =20 > predicate on that RDF subject is an <XRD:Link:Rel>, then a logical =20 > name for the RDF object of the link would be <XRD:Link:Object> > > 2) <XRD:Link:RelativeSubject> This follows from the above, i.e., =20 > if we use =93Subject=94 to mean the resource described by the XRD, = then =20 > =93Relative Subject=94 would mean the same Subject, only as identified = =20 > relative to the Link Object. > > Thoughts? > > =3DDrummond > > > From: markus.sabadello@gmail.com [mailto:markus.sabadello@gmail.com] =20= > On Behalf Of Markus Sabadello > Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 11:29 AM > To: Drummond Reed > Cc: Will Norris; XRI TC > Subject: Re: [xri] XRD delegated identifer element (was part of: =20 > questions about LRDD / OpenID) > > My intuitive answer would be that the delegate goes into =20 > XRD:Link:Alias, but I'm probably not really so close to this. > > Markus > > On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Drummond Reed = <drummond.reed@cordance.net=20 > > wrote: > I'm latching onto the very last question Will put in his response to =20= > Markus' > XRD/LRDD questions this morning: > > > To add one additional question... for the delegation use case, how =20= > is > > it expected that one would specify the OpenID delegate URL in =20 > XRD? I > > can't think of any existing XRD element that would be suitable for > > this, so I'm assuming we are expecting OpenID Discovery to define a > > new Link sub-element, like they already do in XRDS? Of course, if > > there is no delegate specified, you would just use the XRD Subject. > > The "existing XRD element that would be suitable for this" is =20 > supposed to be > the LocalID element, listed near the bottom of > http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/XrdOne/XrdSchema. That was already the > element designed to replace the openid:delegate element for identifier > delegation in OpenID 2.0 discovery. > > So, my first question is to confirm with Eran and everyone that this =20= > is > still the case, i.e., the <XRD:Link:LocalID> element is the element =20= > intended > to be used for identifier delegation by OpenID (or any other =20 > protocol that > needs local identifier delegation). > > My second question is whether, if this is the case, we should (as we =20= > are > doing with all the other XRD 1.0 elements) revisit the semantics of =20= > the > element name itself and decide if there is a better alternative. > > My third question is how this factors into trust verification, since =20= > you are > effectively asserting a synonym here. > > Thoughts? > > =3DDrummond > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > > --Apple-Mail-158--281721005 Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; = -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I don't think delegation = is actually asserting a synonym for the = identifiers. <div><br></div><div>Consider delegating to a directed = identity OP. I am in no way saying the I am = me.yahoo.com.</div><div><br></div><div>I know I have argued = against delegating to = directed identities.</div><div><br></div><div>The point being that = LocalID is just that the ID I want to use with this service. = LocalID is not synonym especially at the target = service otherwise you wouldn't need it.</div><div><br></div><div>I think = localID indicates the users self asserted local ID for the service and = the protocol can take that for what it is = worth.</div><div><br></div><div>Conventionally if the user puts in = the wrong localID they won't have the password to authenticate. = </div><div>It should always be treated as self asserted in a = users XRD. Possibly it could be treated as authoritative in other = sorts of XRDs but that should be left to the protocol to = decide.</div><div><br></div><div>I am not seeing a problem with the = existing LocalID.</div><div><br></div><div>John = B.</div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On 23-Mar-09, at 9:20 PM, Drummond = Reed wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, = 0); "><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue"><div = class=3D"Section1"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; = margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: = 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">> Markus = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; ">><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">></span></font><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>My intuitive answer would = be that the delegate goes into XRD:Link:Alias, but I'm probably not = really<o:p></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; = margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: = 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; ">> so close to this.</span></font><font = size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; = "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; ">Yes, I had been thinking about the possibility of using = =93XRD:Link:Alias=94 as the new name for =93XRD:Link:LocalID=94 = too.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">But here=92s the conceptual = problem with that. As currently proposed in<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/XrdOne/XrdSchema"; style=3D"color: = blue; text-decoration: underline; = ">http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/XrdOne/XrdSchema</a>, XRD defines two = elements at the XRD level to express identifiers identifying the = resource described by the XRD:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; = "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; ">1) XRD:Subject =96 the canonical URI for the = resource.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; ">2) XRD:Alias =96 any other synonymous URI for the = resource.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">The problem with using either = of the element name =93Subject=94 or =93Alias=94 at the XRD:Link level = is that it can lead to semantic confusion about whether the element is = identifying the canonical ID or synonym ID = of:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">a) The resource that is the = target of the link, or<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">b) The resource described by = the XRD _<i><span style=3D"font-style: italic; ">as identified in the = context of</span></i>_ the resource that is the target of the = link.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">The second point is subtle but = very important. As an example, say you have an XRD describing resource A = with an XRD:Link to resource B. Inside this XRD:Link element, there are = a total of four logical options for identifier = elements:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">1) The canonical URI for = resource B (the target of the link).<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; = "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; ">2) Any other synonymous URI for resource = B.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">3) The canonical identifier = (which may not be a URI) for resource A _<i><span style=3D"font-style: = italic; ">in the context of resource B</span></i>_, i.e., the canonical = identifier by which resource B identifies resource = A.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">4) Any other synonymous = identifier (which may not be a URI) for resource A _<i><span = style=3D"font-style: italic; ">in the context of resource B</span></i>_, = i.e., any other identifier by which resource B identifies resource = A.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Note that (1) is already = recognized as a key use case for XRD 1.0, and that (3) is the well-know = delegated identifier use case for OpenID. (2) and (4) are less = compelling use cases, and thus may not warrant a standard XRD element = (but don=92t be surprised if they crop = up).<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">So even if we limit our scope = to (1) and (3), that means that we need _<i><span style=3D"font-style: = italic; ">two</span></i>_ child elements of <XRD:Link> that = express:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">* the canonical URI for = resource B (the target of the link), = AND<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; ">* The canonical identifier by which resource B identifies = resource A.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">That=92s the semantics we need = to express as clearly as possible in the element names. In other words, = were we to =93spell them out clearly=94, these two element names might = be:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">1) = <XRD:Link:Canonical-URI-For-Link-Target-Resource><u><o:p></o:p></u><= /span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; = margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: = 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">2) = <XRD:Link:Canonical-URI-For-XRD-Subject-In-Context-Of-Link-Target-Resou= rce><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">If we agree those are the = correct semantics, we just need to figure out the best short names that = capture those semantics. Here=92s one suggestion (but my no means the = only one):<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">1) <XRD:Link:Object> = This follows from RDF semantics. If the RDF subject of an XRD has = the element name <XRD:Subject>, and each RDF predicate on that RDF = subject is an <XRD:Link:Rel>, then a logical name for the RDF = object of the link would be = <XRD:Link:Object><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; = "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; ">2) <XRD:Link:RelativeSubject> This = follows from the above, i.e., if we use =93Subject=94 to mean the = resource described by the XRD, then =93Relative Subject=94 would mean = the same Subject, only as identified relative to the Link = Object.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; = ">Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; = ">=3DDrummond<u><o:p></o:p></u></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; = "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; = color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; = border-bottom-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; = border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: = 1.5pt; padding-top: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; = padding-left: 4pt; "><div><div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = text-align: center; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; "><hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center"= tabindex=3D"-1"></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font size=3D"2" = face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; = font-weight: bold; ">From:</span></font></b><font size=3D"2" = face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; = "><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"mailto:markus.sabadello@gmail.com";>markus.sabadello@gmail.com</a> = [<a href=3D"mailto:markus.sabadello@gmail.com"; style=3D"color: blue; = text-decoration: underline; = ">mailto:markus.sabadello@gmail.com</a>]<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span = style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">On Behalf Of<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>Markus = Sabadello<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; = ">Sent:</span></b><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, March 23, 2009 = 11:29 AM<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Drummond Reed<br><b><span = style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">Cc:</span></b><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Will Norris; XRI = TC<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">Subject:</span></b><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [xri] XRD delegated = identifer element (was part of: questions about LRDD / = OpenID)</span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: = 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; = "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: = 12pt; ">My intuitive answer would be that the delegate goes into = XRD:Link:Alias, but I'm probably not really so close to = this.<br><br>Markus<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: = 12pt; ">On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Drummond Reed <<a = href=3D"mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net"; style=3D"color: blue; = text-decoration: underline; ">drummond.reed@cordance.net</a>> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" = style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; = margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: = 12pt; ">I'm latching onto the very last question Will put in his = response to Markus'<br>XRD/LRDD questions this morning:<br><br>> To = add one additional question... for the delegation use case, how = is<br>> it expected that one would specify the OpenID delegate URL in = XRD? I<br>> can't think of any existing XRD element that would = be suitable for<br>> this, so I'm assuming we are expecting OpenID = Discovery to define a<br>> new Link sub-element, like they already do = in XRDS? Of course, if<br>> there is no delegate specified, you = would just use the XRD Subject.<br><br>The "existing XRD element that = would be suitable for this" is supposed to be<br>the LocalID element, = listed near the bottom of<br><a = href=3D"http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/XrdOne/XrdSchema"; target=3D"_blank"= style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; = ">http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/XrdOne/XrdSchema</a>. That was already = the<br>element designed to replace the openid:delegate element for = identifier<br>delegation in OpenID 2.0 discovery.<br><br>So, my first = question is to confirm with Eran and everyone that this is<br>still the = case, i.e., the <XRD:Link:LocalID> element is the element = intended<br>to be used for identifier delegation by OpenID (or any other = protocol that<br>needs local identifier delegation).<br><br>My second = question is whether, if this is the case, we should (as we are<br>doing = with all the other XRD 1.0 elements) revisit the semantics of = the<br>element name itself and decide if there is a better = alternative.<br><br>My third question is how this factors into trust = verification, since you are<br>effectively asserting a synonym = here.<br><br>Thoughts?<br><br>=3DDrummond<br><br><br>---------------------= ------------------------------------------------<br>To unsubscribe from = this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that<br>generates this mail. = Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at:<br><a = href=3D"https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups= .php" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: = underline; = ">https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php</= a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; = margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times = New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; = "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></div></div></div></span></blockquo= te></div><br></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-158--281721005-- --Apple-Mail-159--281720460 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIPITCCBzcw 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