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Subject: Re: [xri] XRD and JSON
--Apple-Mail-62--544508643 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-61--544509680 --Apple-Mail-61--544509680 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am still trying to understand the use case. Having multiple discovery formats each requiring separate processing is = not optimal. Being able to transform from one to the other may have advantages. I am speculating that the Google wants a discovery format that can be = entirely parsed with JS inside the browser. I am not personally religious about XML.=20 If a JSON format that can be transformed into the equivalent XML XRD = can be specified that may be a useful work product for the TC. My main concerns are around signatures if this starts being used on the = server as well as in the browser. The Google seems to have decided this week that going outside the = existing standards development process is more efficient. I would prefer that this not result in competing discovery standards. It is worth discussing, but at the end of the day Google may need to do = what it needs to do. John B. On 2010-04-22, at 3:04 PM, Will Norris wrote: > On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Scott Cantor <cantor.2@osu.edu> = wrote: > > JsonML does a far better job than some other similar utilities I've = seen, > so > > that is certainly nice. And for it's stated goals of providing a = compact > > format for transporting XML, it works great. But that kind of = misses the > > point of using JSON, which is to provide an natural representation = of the > > object, not just a document. >=20 > I think the document is the natural representation. A simple layer of = code > addresses whatever limitations might exist in the language that's = purporting > to be too difficult to use the document in. >=20 > But as a matter of specification, the problem you have is that, like = SAML, > there's an explicit characterization of the notion of an XRD as being = XML. > If it's not XML, it's not an XRD. I have not seen a simple way around = that. >=20 > A separate specification can be created to establish an interchange = format > in some other encoding with a different label attached to it, but if = the > goal here was to allow for non-XML representations of an XRD, it would > require some fairly big changes that I'm pretty comfortable saying = nobody > wants to take on. >=20 > certainly, I wasn't meaning to suggest a departure of any kind from = how XRD is defined today. I've been quite upfront from the beginning of = my involvement with this TC that I view XRD (as it's specified) solely = as an XML format, and if you want something else, then do it yourself. = Well, now Google is sort of doing it ourselves, and we figured that if = others end up wanting to do the same, it might be good to have agreement = on what that JSON format looks like. That could just be a whitepaper, a = best practice guide, or whatever. It certainly doesn't have to be a = product of this TC, I just thought I would see if it was anything folks = had any interest in it. >=20 > -will --Apple-Mail-61--544509680 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I am = still trying to understand the use case.<div><br></div><div>Having = multiple discovery formats each requiring separate processing is not = optimal.</div><div><br></div><div>Being able to transform from one to = the other may have advantages.</div><div><br></div><div>I am speculating = that the Google wants a discovery format that can be entirely parsed = with JS inside the browser.</div><div><br></div><div>I am not personally = religious about XML. </div><div><br></div><div>If a JSON = format that can be transformed into the equivalent XML XRD can be = specified that may be a useful work product for the = TC.</div><div><br></div><div>My main concerns are around signatures if = this starts being used on the server as well as in the = browser.</div><div><br></div><div>The Google seems to have decided this = week that going outside the existing standards development process is = more efficient.</div><div>I would prefer that this not result in = competing discovery standards.</div><div><br></div><div>It is worth = discussing, but at the end of the day Google may need to do what it = needs to do.</div><div><br></div><div>John B.</div><div><br><div><div>On = 2010-04-22, at 3:04 PM, Will Norris wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div = class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Scott Cantor = <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a = href=3D"mailto:cantor.2@osu.edu";>cantor.2@osu.edu</a>></span> = wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 = .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"> <div class=3D"im">> JsonML does a far better job than some other = similar utilities I've seen,<br> so<br> > that is certainly nice. And for it's stated goals of = providing a compact<br> > format for transporting XML, it works great. But that kind of = misses the<br> > point of using JSON, which is to provide an natural representation = of the<br> > object, not just a document.<br> <br> </div>I think the document is the natural representation. A simple layer = of code<br> addresses whatever limitations might exist in the language that's = purporting<br> to be too difficult to use the document in.<br> <br> But as a matter of specification, the problem you have is that, like = SAML,<br> there's an explicit characterization of the notion of an XRD as being = XML.<br> If it's not XML, it's not an XRD. I have not seen a simple way around = that.<br> <br> A separate specification can be created to establish an interchange = format<br> in some other encoding with a different label attached to it, but if = the<br> goal here was to allow for non-XML representations of an XRD, it = would<br> require some fairly big changes that I'm pretty comfortable saying = nobody<br> wants to take on.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>certainly, I wasn't = meaning to suggest a departure of any kind from how XRD is defined = today. I've been quite upfront from the beginning of my = involvement with this TC that I view XRD (as it's specified) solely as = an XML format, and if you want something else, then do it yourself. = Well, now Google is sort of doing it ourselves, and we = figured that if others end up wanting to do the same, it might be = good to have agreement on what that JSON format looks like. That = could just be a whitepaper, a best practice guide, or whatever. It = certainly doesn't have to be a product of this TC, I just thought I = would see if it was anything folks had any interest in it.</div> <div><br></div><div>-will</div></div> </blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-61--544509680-- --Apple-Mail-62--544508643 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIO9TCCBwsw ggXzoAMCAQICAgZDMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMIGMMQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTDEWMBQGA1UEChMNU3Rh cnRDb20gTHRkLjErMCkGA1UECxMiU2VjdXJlIERpZ2l0YWwgQ2VydGlmaWNhdGUgU2lnbmluZzE4 MDYGA1UEAxMvU3RhcnRDb20gQ2xhc3MgMiBQcmltYXJ5IEludGVybWVkaWF0ZSBDbGllbnQgQ0Ew HhcNMTAwMzE3MTM0NDQ1WhcNMTIwMzE4MTE1NTExWjCBzTEgMB4GA1UEDRMXMTY1NTU1LTJHU3FU T1ZUbkk4OHhOSW4xCzAJBgNVBAYTAkNMMSIwIAYDVQQIExlNZXRyb3BvbGl0YW5hIGRlIFNhbnRp YWdvMREwDwYDVQQHEwhWaXRhY3VyYTEtMCsGA1UECxMkU3RhcnRDb20gVmVyaWZpZWQgQ2VydGlm 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