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Subject: RE: [bdx] New version of BDEA uploaded

I see none of these lists have an identifier used for Icelandic companies for example, so they are incomplete it seems. Therefore I see a good reason for a "combined" identifier, which can assemble all practical business identifiers into one list for the purpose of document exchane (or more) - and reduce possible chaos :-)


-----Original Message-----
From: Jens Jakob Andersen [mailto:jjan@itst.dk] 
Sent: 30. mars 2011 11:30
To: Pim van der Eijk; Markus Gudmundsson; 'Mikkel Hippe Brun'; 'Business Document Exchange TC List'
Subject: SV: [bdx] New version of BDEA uploaded

Dear Pim

The ebCore very much resembles the UPIS scheme utilized in PEPPOL.

PEPPOL did in fact at some point in time evaluated using the ebCore scheme - but dropped it again due to the complexity - compare:

The challenge I see in BDX is to be open for different schemes to be usable - and not narrow BDX down to "one ring to bind them all" ;-)

It is the lack of interoperability between the many existing initiatiaves which is the hurdle that BDX must solve.

Best regards

Jens Jakob

Fra: Pim van der Eijk [pvde@sonnenglanz.net]
Sendt: 30. marts 2011 13:17
Til: 'Markus Gudmundsson'; 'Mikkel Hippe Brun'; 'Business Document Exchange TC List'
Emne: RE: [bdx] New version of BDEA uploaded

There are some listings on the Web for the three catalogs:

ISO 6523 (somewhat old copy), http://metadata-stds.org/Document-library/Draft-standards/6523-Identification-of-Organizations/ICD_list.htm#ICD0009

ISO 9735 http://www.unece.org/trade/untdid/d95b/uncl/unsl.htm.

ISO 20022 has the OrganisationId element in the ISO 20022 registry (their URLs keep changing and the search engine on their site doesn't work today ..) which references some ISO schemes like BIC, and a separate set of approved data source schemes, which can be downloaded from http://www.iso20022.org/External_Code_Lists_and_DSS.page

These three catalogs contain a large number of schemes that collectively cover millions of business internationally.

A good background document is CWA 16036, ftp://cenftp1.cenorm.be/PUBLIC/CWAs/Cyber_Identity/CWA_CyberIdentity.pdf.

The authors of that document have a very nice demonstrator, that allows you to generate ebCore IDs for some schemes:



From: Markus Gudmundsson [mailto:markus@unimaze.com]
Sent: 30 March 2011 12:42
To: Pim van der Eijk; 'Mikkel Hippe Brun'; 'Business Document Exchange TC List'
Subject: RE: [bdx] New version of BDEA uploaded

Unfortunately I cannot attend the full meeting today, but hopefully part of it.

Regarding point 4) is the list of the mapping of these identifiers available somewhere? Is it only contained in the ISO documents?


Mark˙s Gu­mundsson l markus@unimaze.com<mailto:markus@unimaze.com>
Managing Director / Consultant

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From: Pim van der Eijk [mailto:pvde@sonnenglanz.net]
Sent: 30. mars 2011 10:24
To: 'Mikkel Hippe Brun'; 'Business Document Exchange TC List'
Subject: RE: [bdx] New version of BDEA uploaded

I have not studied this document fully, but here are some comments:

1) I would recommend starting to use the OASIS specification templates as soon as possible, to save yourselves a lot of editing time later ..

2) In an architecture of 4 corner document exchange, I would have expected to see an explanation or justification of a 4 corner model of communication, and the requirements it addresses.  Instead, the introduction starts with a sweeping statement: "It is widely recognized that the 4-corner model is the right model for secure and reliable exchange of business documents between business partners".  I'm not saying I diagree.  But given that there has been a massive shift away from service provider-based models to peer-to-peer communication and the success of protocols like AS2, this statement deserves more justification.

3) The document proposes that all Access Points must support a default transport protocol and proposes a specific transport protocol.   We discussed this in the past,  and then it was agreed that we would leave such decisions to conformance clauses/profiles.  Multiple conformance profiles could make different choices.

Any proposed default for transport protocol would need to be justified, e.g. established market share among service providers would perhaps favour adopting AS2 as default protocol since it is the most widely used B2B transport protocol in many parts of the world.

4) The document also proposes a participant identifier scheme that combines scheme identifier and identifier code.  I'm not sure why the specifics of identifier schemes needs to be discussed in an architecture document. There are some ISO standard scheme catalogs, such as 6523, 20022, 9735.  There is also an established OASIS party identifier which has been used for some years and is seeing increased adoption:

I'm not sure why a new method of concatenating catalog identifier, scheme identifier and scheme-specific identifier is needed.


From: Mikkel Hippe Brun [mailto:mhb@tradeshift.com]
Sent: 30 March 2011 10:56
To: Business Document Exchange TC List
Subject: [bdx] New version of BDEA uploaded If you have time before the BDX meeting later today. Take a look at the following sections:

 *   Overview
 *   A model for re-using existing identifier schemes
 *   Trust and security
Download Document:

Best regards,

Mikkel Hippe Brun

Voice: +45 3118 9102
Skype: hippebrun
Twitter: @hippebrun  @tradeshift
Mail: mhb@tradeshift.com<mailto:mhb@tradeshift.com>
Web: http://tradeshift.com

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