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Subject: Re: [bpel4people] BPEL4People - Applying F2F Minutes
We did not have a motion on BP-64 (after moving on to BP-65). As far as I
can tell, we asked Yoichi to check whether BP-64 still applies and revise
it if necessary.
(See attached file: 2009-01-21.txt)
Kind Regards
Dieter König
Senior Technical Staff Member, WebSphere Process Server Architect
IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software
WSS Business Process Solutions
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243294
From: Yoichi Takayama <yoichi@melcoe.mq.edu.au>
To: Dave Ings <ings@ca.ibm.com>
Cc: bpel4people@lists.oasis-open.org
Date: 31.01.2009 00:06
Subject: Re: [bpel4people] BPEL4People - Applying F2F Minutes
My memory of it is that since we voted on BP-65 after BP-64, we did not
re-visit BP-64 to vote given that BP-65 is given approval. I think that the
other issues following BP-65, we closed them.
At the time we moved onto BP-65, we left the BP-64 as was. That is, that I
would re-consider what's the problem is after re-reading the TaskProcessor
in Section 6 and come back to the next TC..
I think that my interpretation of how the BPEL4Peolle CD02 expects Tasks to
implement actual Human Tasks applications (by Web Services) seems to be
different from everyone's. I need to find out whether I am reading the
CD-02 somehow wrong or it can be read my way, then need to propose what to
do with BP-64, either re-state it or drop it.
Does it make sense?
Thanks,
Yoichi,
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Yoichi Takayama, PhD
Senior Research Fellow
RAMP Project
MELCOE (Macquarie E-Learning Centre of Excellence)
MACQUARIE UNIVERSITY
Phone: +61 (0)2 9850 9073
Fax: +61 (0)2 9850 6527
www.mq.edu.au
www.melcoe.mq.edu.au/projects/RAMP/
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On 31/01/2009, at 9:08 AM, Dave Ings wrote:
2. The minutes do not record how we disposed of Yoichi's proposed
BP-64. We accepted BP-65, which was the need to provide a conceptual
architecture introduction (for new readers), and as part of the same
discussion thread we closed 66, 67 and 68 with no action. I can't
recall whether we (a) forgot to vote on closing 64, or forgot to
record the vote or (b) asked Yoichi to revisit the issue statement
for next TC given our acceptance of 65.
Anyone remember? My hunch is we meant to close it (having accepted
65) but forgot to conduct the vote.
[8:32] Dieter Koenig: F2F group dinner Jan 21 menu and directions: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/document.php?document_id=30785 [9:02] Dieter Koenig: Scribe (Jan 21, morning): Dieter [9:06] Dieter Koenig: Agenda for Jan 21 Wednesday 1/21 - 9 AM to 5 PM 1. Review New Issues Opened by Yoichi - up to 2 hours http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-64 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-65 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-66 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-67 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-68 2. Michael to review proposals for issues 36, 44, 45 - up to 2 hours http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-36 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-44 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-45 [9:12] Dieter Koenig: Topic 1. Review New Issues Opened by Yoichi - up to 2 hours [9:17] Dieter Koenig: Slides attached here: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200901/msg00027.html [9:17] Dave Ings: Yoichi, we have lost your connection, are you there? [9:17] yoichi: hello? [9:17] anonymous morphed into Hannah Petereit [9:18] Dave Ings: Hello are you on mute? [9:18] Dave Ings: we can't hear you!! [9:18] yoichi: No, but I will try different handset [9:18] anonymous1 morphed into Alireza Farhoush [9:18] Dave Ings: Perhaps dial in again? [9:19] yoichi: calling [9:23] Dieter Koenig: Yoichi walks thru the slides for the new issue BP-64 ... [9:34] Dave Ings: Yoichi, the line is half-duplex, can you please pause quite often to allow questions etc [9:47] Dieter Koenig: For the coordination between task parent runtime and task runtime, see also figure 1 in chapter 7 of ws-ht [9:50] anonymous morphed into Phil Allen [9:52] Dieter Koenig: OASIS email links to issues 64-68 BP-64: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200901/msg00010.html BP-65: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200901/msg00023.html BP-66: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200901/msg00020.html BP-67: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200901/msg00021.html BP-68: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200901/msg00022.html [9:55] Dieter Koenig: Need to add a comment to BP-65: add a overview figure to the spec, describing the overall architecture including the task parent, the tasklist, the client, and the interactions between them [9:57] Alireza Farhoush: A couple of things to add: description of each component of the architecture in detail, and providing a glossary describing all related terms. [9:58] Dave Ings: Note that 65 is purely descriptive in nature and not normative [9:58] Dieter Koenig: Motion: accept BP-65 as amended by the above enhancements (m: Phil, s: Gerhard) [9:59] Dieter Koenig: No objection - BP-65 is opened [10:00] Dieter Koenig: BP-65 is assigned to Frank [10:00] Dieter Koenig: next subtopic: BP-66 [10:01] Dieter Koenig: Motion to close BP-66 without action (m: Gerhard, s: Martin) - no objections - BP-66 is closed [10:02] Dieter Koenig: next subtopic: BP-67 [10:05] Dieter Koenig: Motion to close BP-67 with no action - duplicate of BP-65 - (m: Gerhard, s: Dieter) - no objection - BP-67 is closed [10:05] Dieter Koenig: next subtopic: BP-68 [10:11] Dieter Koenig: Motion to open BP-68 - (m: Michael R, s: Dieter) - no objection - BP-68 is opened [10:11] Dave Ings: Proposal: resolve 68 by deleting the sentence at 2298 "The value of this element is taken from the htd:remoteTask/ @responseOperation attribute." in HT. [10:12] Dieter Koenig: Motion to resolve BP-68 as described above - (m: Michael R, s: Matthias) [10:13] Dieter Koenig: No objection - BP-68 is resolved [10:14] Dieter Koenig: ----------- 10 min break ------------ [10:27] Dieter Koenig: Next topic: 2. Michael to review proposals for issues 36, 44, 45 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-36 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-44 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-45 [10:28] Dieter Koenig: BP-36 doc attached to http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200901/msg00025.html [10:30] Dieter Koenig: first subtopic: BP-44 [10:31] Dieter Koenig: BP-44 proposal in http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/bpel4people/200812/msg00034.html [10:45] Dieter Koenig: Need to discuss "bulk"/"batch" operations == operations invoked for a list of task ids [10:48] Dieter Koenig: Gerhard will submit a separate issue [10:49] Dieter Koenig: The new issue will address single operations on a set of tasks [10:53] Dieter Koenig: Mike R. will submit a revised proposal that addresses extensibility [10:53] Dieter Koenig: next subtopic: BP-36 [11:00] Dieter Koenig: Operation getTaskDetails() already exists (after the resolution of BP-61): http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-61 [11:04] Dieter Koenig: WS-HT section 3.4 defines "task instance data" [11:09] Dieter Koenig: Proposal: call the new operation "getTaskInstanceData()" [11:25] Dieter Koenig: Reconcile proposal with BP-61 [11:25] Dieter Koenig: next subtopic: BP-45 [11:26] Dieter Koenig: Proposal attached here: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200901/msg00012.html [11:32] Dieter Koenig: Discussion about the relationship between task instance lifecycle and task instance history lifecycle [12:19] Dieter Koenig: Need to define what data is returned by the getTaskHistory operation (security aspect) [12:20] Dieter Koenig: TBD: (1) task history for simple tasks (see Mike's proposal) (2) task history sharing for composite tasks (3) task history sharing with task parent [12:28] Dieter Koenig: Need to define the granularity of filter criteria [12:29] Dieter Koenig: Need to have an approach for paging (start index, max events) consistent with task instance query operations [12:32] Dieter Koenig: Gerhard will raise a new issue for a consistent paging approach in query operations [12:38] Dieter Koenig: ----------- lunch break ----------- [13:58] Ralf Mueller: Taking over scribe from Dieter [13:58] anonymous morphed into Dave Ings [14:00] Ralf Mueller: Alex to present Task Parent to Task Processor Interop form simple task types [14:11] Ralf Mueller: Discussed deployment of human interactions to Task Processors, are there cases that require standardization because of tighter coupling between B4P and WST-HT Processor ? [14:38] Ralf Mueller: Alex to formalize the concept of lean task, task outcomes and API [14:39] Ralf Mueller: 10 minute break. [14:59] Ralf Mueller: Agenda Items for Thursday: Human Task Context (request/response) (Dieter), Get Task operations API (Mike) [15:05] Dave Ings: Proposed motion: the decision of the TC is to base subsequent discussion and evolution (i.e. the baseline proposal) regarding issue 28 upon the most recent slide deck provided by IBM and SAP and as discussed on 1/20 at the F2F. [15:05] Ralf Mueller: Ivana moves, Martin seconds [15:06] Ralf Mueller: Motion unanimously carried [15:09] Ralf Mueller: Dieter to present Result Aggregation proposal for routing patterns [15:45] Ralf Mueller: Hannah to present on Input and Output handling for Composite Tasks [16:36] Ralf Mueller: Continued the discussion with Attachments and Comments [17:04] Ralf Mueller: Group Discussion on Composite Tasks, Lean Tasks, process vs. task [17:18] Ralf Mueller: End of Discussion at 5:15pm
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