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Subject: Unformatted Minutes of the TC F2F Meeting
(See attached file: 2009-06-17.txt)(See attached file: 2009-06-18.txt)(See
attached file: 2009-06-19.txt)
Kind Regards
Dieter König
Senior Technical Staff Member, WebSphere Process Server Architect
IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software
WSS Business Process Solutions
Phone: +49-7031-16-3426 IBM Deutschland (Embedded
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to file:
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E-Mail: dieterkoenig@de.ibm.com Schönaicher Str. 220
71032 Böblingen
Germany
IBM Deutschland
Research &
Development
GmbH /
Vorsitzender des
Aufsichtsrats:
Martin Jetter
Geschäftsführung:
Erich Baier
Sitz der
Gesellschaft:
Böblingen /
Registergericht:
Amtsgericht
Stuttgart, HRB
243294
[8:03] anonymous morphed into Krasimir Nedkov [9:01] anonymous morphed into Krasimir Nedkov [9:03] Dieter Koenig: getting organized in the meeting room - meeting will start in a few minutes ... [9:06] anonymous morphed into Gershon Janssen [9:08] Dieter Koenig: BPEL4People F2F Logistics / Agenda Outline 1. Welcome / Review Meeting Logistics 1290 Avenue of the Americas, Sixth Floor, New York, NY 10104 Meeting starts Wednesday 6/17 9 AM and ends Friday 6/19 at noon. Facility details: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200906/msg00014.html Each morning from 9 to 12 we'll use the phone bridge (number below) to allow Ivana and Hannah to dial in. If there is demand we can also use the phone bridge in the afternoons. SAP has provided emeeting facilities so as needed we can share slides in real time - the URL is below. Lunch will be provided each day at approximately noon. The group dinner is at Rue 57 at 57th and 6th Wednesday at 7 PM. We need to reconfirm attendance Wednesday morning. 2. Roll call, assignment of initial minute taker, agenda review Customarily, each minute taker takes minutes for 1/2 a day. I suggest we continue with this custom. 3. Review and approval of the previous TC minutes http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200906/msg00018.html 4. CD 4 Review and Vote http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200906/msg00004.html 5. Discuss Issues General Issues Gerhard - revised proposal http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-69 http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200906/msg00015.html Alireza - revised proposal http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-73 Alex/Phil - revised proposal http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-79 http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200906/msg00012.html http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200906/msg00013.html Task Routing Patterns Issues http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-28 (Ravi, root issue) http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-82 (Martin) http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-83 (Alex, Dieter, Ravi) http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-84 (Dieter, proposal at http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200906/msg00006.html) http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-85 (Ravi, Gerhard, keystone issue) http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-86 (Oliver, dependent on resolution of BP-85) http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-87 (Dieter, Hannah) http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BP-88 (Gerhard, Oliver) Telecon Information North American toll-free number: 866-245-5059 European toll-free number: (00)-800-4444-1010 International number: 416-343-2607 Conference ID: 2388736 Informal chat room: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/bpel4people-TC Emeeting location: https://sap.emea.pgiconnect.com/bpel4people/ Schedule 4/15 Publish CD 3 (includes all issues applied as of 3/31) 6/1 Publish CD 4 (includes all issues other than task routing patterns) 7/15 Publish CD 5 (includes task routing patterns) 7/15 - 8/1 Prepare PRD 1 8/01 Publish PRD 1 8/01 - 10/01 PRD 1 Review Period (60 days) 9/1 - 10/1 Prepare PRD 2 (partially overlaps with PRD 1 comment period) 10/01 Publish PRD 2 10/1 - 10/15 PRD 2 Review Period (15 days) 10/15 - 11/01 Prepare CS 11/01 Publish CS 1/15 (2010) OASIS Specification Approved [9:08] anonymous morphed into Ivana Trickovic [9:16] anonymous1 morphed into Alireza Farhoush [9:16] anonymous1 morphed into Luc Clement [9:17] Luc Clement: Min: roll call taken [9:17] Luc Clement: Min: minutes approved [9:19] anonymous morphed into Phil Allen [9:20] anonymous morphed into Dave Ings [9:22] Luc Clement: Min: Section 3.4.3.2 Comment Datatype. Philip identified an error: lastModifiedOn needed to be changed to lastModifiedTime per the resolution. The change was done at the meeting [9:22] Luc Clement: Min: Luc moved to approve Rev140 as CD-04. Michael seconded [9:23] Luc Clement: Rev 140 was approved unanimously as Committee Draft 04 [9:24] Luc Clement: Min: we agreed to not formally post the CD to the documents are [9:27] anonymous morphed into Alex Malek [9:58] Luc Clement: Min: We reviewed proposal BP-69 - Batch Operations. We performed edits of Gerhard's proposal during the meeting. The associated WSDL still needs to be updated to add the Batch Start and Stop and an extensibility element. This discussion is table for today. Dieter will be making the updates to the WSDL. This topic will be reviewed with the plan to approve as Resolved during Day 2 of the FTF [10:13] Luc Clement: Min: We reviewed proposal BP-73. Alireza led the discussion. We reviewed the attachment at http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200906/msg00017.html. [10:14] Luc Clement: Min: Motion by Alireza to accept as resolved BP-73. Seconded by Dieter. Approved unanimously by the TC [10:31] Dave Ings: https://sap.emea.pgiconnect.com/bpel4people/ [10:44] Luc Clement: Min: Discussion of BP-79 Proposal - Lean Tasks. Led by Alex. [10:59] Luc Clement: Min: we agreed in principle that we were accepting the concept of a lean task as something to include in the spec. Alex will revise the text of the proposal submitted at http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200906/msg00022.html [11:01] Dieter Koenig: Latest BP-84 proposal: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200906/msg00006.html [11:09] Dieter Koenig: lost connection - will dial in again [11:11] Luc Clement: Min: Discussion led by Ravi on BP-28 task routing patterns. [12:16] Dieter Koenig: break for 1 hour --> 01:15pm Eastern [13:12] anonymous1 morphed into Hannah Petereit [13:18] anonymous1 morphed into Alireza Farhoush [13:19] Alireza Farhoush: Continued discussion on BP-28 task routing patterns [14:22] Alireza Farhoush: Dieter leading the discussion of completion behavior of routing/composite tasks [16:21] Alireza Farhoush: Discussion on subtask creation and activation [16:31] Phil Allen: Suspend/resume [16:32] Alireza Farhoush: Discussion of task operation of subtasks and relation to parents [16:32] Alireza Farhoush: A task can be resumed only if its parent is not suspended [16:48] Alireza Farhoush: Discussion on handling faults in children when in sequence and its affect on the parent's status (propagating upward?) [17:09] Dieter Koenig: http://www.rue57.com
[9:01] anonymous morphed into Ivana Trickovic
[9:13] Gershon Janssen: Scribe: Gershon Janssen
Meeting attendees:
Dave Ings
AlirezaFarhoush
MichaelRowley
Alex Malek
Phillip Allen
Dieter Koening
Ravi Rangaswamy
Martin Chapman
Oliver Kieselbach
Gershon Janssen
Telecon attendees:
Ivana Trickovic
Hannah Petereit
GerhardPfau
[9:16] anonymous morphed into Alireza Farhoush
[9:21] Dave Ings: The TC moves that the Task Routing Patterns draft, http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200906/msg00030.html, be accepted in principle as the baseline for the task routing patterns function, and that it be referred to the editing subcomitted for incorporation into a revision of CD 4.
[9:25] Dave Ings: (Draft motion text) The TC moves that the Task Routing Patterns draft, http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200906/msg00030.html, be accepted as the resolution to BP-28, and that it be referred to the editing subcomitted for incorporation into a revision of CD 4.
[9:29] Gershon Janssen: Michael moves to accept the referenced email as resolution to issue BP-28.
[9:30] Gershon Janssen: Dieter seconds.
[9:30] Gershon Janssen: Accepted by unanimous consent.
[9:33] Gershon Janssen: Emeeting location: https://sap.emea.pgiconnect.com/bpel4people/
[9:42] Gershon Janssen: Martin motions as a result of the resolution to BP-28, BP-84 is resolved as well.
[9:42] Gershon Janssen: Dieter seconds.
[9:42] Gershon Janssen: Accepted by unanimous consent.
[11:14] Gershon Janssen: Martin guides the TC through a list of potential new issues as a result of yesterday afternoon discussion.
[11:14] Martin C: New Issue: Complete HT section 3.3, Routing Pattern intro
New Issue: HT section 3.4.5 Review for correctness the default sub-task assignments (an example is the
default initiator assignment for sub-taks activated automatically).
New issue: HT section 3 need new text defining the relationship between composite tasks and patterns
(Issue-85 is a sub issue of this) and validate the design principle of patterns being able to be built
on top of composite tasks- this is issue XXX
New issue: HT section 3.2.1 change activation pattern to creation pattern
New Issue: HT Section 3.2.1 review the correctness of sub-task creation time (e.g. is it currently too
prescriptive) [probable link to 3.4.5 issue above]
New Issue: HT section 3.6.5. Review 1st paragraph and either make more specific and/or more gerenic e.g.
do we need new apis.
New Issue: HT section 3.6.5 2nd paragraph move to routing patterns section 3.3
New Issue: HT 4.5 Is Multi-instance on composite sub-task necessary? link to XXX
New Issue: HT 4.5 sharing of comments need to be addressed
New Issue: HT 4.6.1.1. Review the collaborate attribute and its defintion (e.g. is it too broad a
control), and possible remove task output text
New issue: HT 4.6.1.2 Need to define completion behaviour for sequential
New Issue: HT 4.7.1 Need to specify when completion criteria has to be evaluated
New Issue: HT 4.7.1 simplification of critereon syntax (e.g. removal of 'and' operator)
New Issue: HT 4.7.1. Should we allow the attachment of completion criteria to a task element (with or
without sub-tasks). If the answer is yes we need to define what happens after the completion condition
evaluates to true for both automatic and manual.
New issue: HT 4.8 Clarify Escalation behaviour
New Issue: HT 4.9.8 review whole section regarding parent and subtask operation propagation
e.g. if a subtask faults must the parent task fault or is this configurable. We may need to refactor all
of 4.9. issue YYY
New Issue: HT 4.9.4 add a normative statment that resume on sub-task is not allowed when parent is
suspended link to YYY
New Issue: HT 6.1.1 clarify complete opertion w.r.t the sequential pattern. dependant on issue-85
[11:26] Martin C: Motion to open all of the above issues
[11:27] Gershon Janssen: Gershon seconds. Accepted by unanimous consent.
[11:31] Dave Ings: Dieter's revised proposal for BP-69 http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200906/msg00027.html
[11:36] Gershon Janssen: Dieter guides the TC through the revised proposal and changes made.
[11:37] Dave Ings: Dieter moves to resolve issue 69 with the resolution in the email, URL immediately above.
[11:37] Gershon Janssen: Alireza seconds. Accepted by unanimous consent.
[11:44] Gershon Janssen: Alex goes over the lean tasks subject.
[12:36] Gershon Janssen: TC has discussion on subject.
[12:37] Gershon Janssen: --- Lunch break (12:30 - 13:30 hrs) ---
[13:32] Martin C: session resumed
[13:36] anonymous morphed into Hannah Petereit
[13:42] anonymous morphed into Oliver Kieselbach
[13:46] Dieter Koenig: BP-85 proposal: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200906/msg00028.html
[14:36] Oliver Kieselbach: Michael outlined 4 different options: Non-shared Subtasks; Shared one Subtasks, Either (Vendor chooses); Both (user chooses)
[14:44] Oliver Kieselbach: 7 prefer option 1); 2 prefered 2)
[14:50] Oliver Kieselbach: BP-85 will be revisted Friday
[15:07] Dave Ings: We had an extended discussion about whether we still needed to include patterns given the presence of composite routing patterns. Dieter pointed out that this discussion was related to issue 92 opened earlier today.
[15:20] anonymous morphed into Ivana Trickovic
[15:35] Ravi Rangaswamy: <htd:task>
....
<htdotentialOwner>
<htdarallel>
<htd:sequential>
<htd:from logicalPeopleGroup="regionalClerks">
<htd:argument name="region">
htd:getInput("part1")/region
</htd:argument>
</htd:from>
<htd:sequential>
<htd:sequential>
<htd:from>htd:getInput("part1")/approvers</htd:from>
<htd:sequential>
<htdarallel>
<htd:from>
<htd:literal>
<htd:organizationalEntity>
<htd:users>
<htd:user>Alan</htd:user>
<htd:user>Dieter</htd:user>
<htd:user>Frank</htd:user>
</htd:users>
</htd:organizationalEntity>
</htd:literal>
</htd:from>
<htdarallel>
</htdarallel>
<htdotentialOwner>
</htd:task>
[15:52] Phil Allen: Oliver presenting slide deck from Stuttgart F2F in reference to routing patterns and composite tasks
[15:53] Phil Allen: Element under investigation: Is the composite task syntax a superset of routing patterns, or is it disjoint?
[16:02] Oliver Kieselbach: switch to issue BP-83....Dieter shows proposal to solve this issue
[16:52] Phil Allen: Issue for Phil to open: What is the interaction of a routing pattern and a composition element on the same task element?
[17:11] Dave Ings: (Draft motion text) Proposed resolution for BP-99 is to remove the text from section 4.6.1.1 of Ravi's doc resolving BP-28.
[17:13] Oliver Kieselbach: Ravi moves to resolve issue BP-93 to remove the text from section 4.6.1.1; Michael seconds
[17:14] Oliver Kieselbach: Correction: BP-99 (not BP-93); Accepted by unanimous consent.
[17:15] Michael Rowley: Routing patterns are useful syntax in addition to composite tasks, partly because they separate the issue of "who" does tasks from the definition of the "what gets done" of the task. This is especially useful for override. We would be able to say that people activities can override the who, but not the what.
[17:37] Phil Allen: Resolve issue 98 by noting that we don't need anything for comment sharing, and we should remove attachmentPropogation from section 4.5 of WS-HT
[17:37] Phil Allen: (motion)
[17:37] Phil Allen: Michael moves
[17:37] Phil Allen: Alex seconds
[17:38] Phil Allen: Unanimously carried
[9:04] Dieter Koenig: Friday morning meeting will run until 12:30 [9:06] anonymous morphed into Alireza Farhoush [9:08] anonymous morphed into Ivana Trickovic [9:08] Dieter Koenig: Emeeting location: https://sap.emea.pgiconnect.com/bpel4people/ [9:09] Hannah Petereit: this is not me [9:10] Martin C: review of new open issue and assignment to people [9:13] Dave Ings: Martin motions that in section 3.2.1 and related schema that we change the term activation pattern to creation pattern, and that this be the resolution of issue BP-93. [9:14] Dieter Koenig: Mike R. seconds [9:14] Dieter Koenig: No objection - BP-93 is resolved [9:17] Dieter Koenig: Note: BP-28 and BP-84 are closed (not yet shown in jira - will be updated next week) [9:20] Dieter Koenig: Mike R. moves to resolve BP-96 with moving HT section 3.6.5 2nd to routing patterns section 3.3 [9:20] Dieter Koenig: Martin seconds [9:20] Dieter Koenig: No objections - BP-96 is resolved [9:23] Dieter Koenig: s/section 3.6.5 2nd/2nd paragraph of section 3.6.5/ [9:24] Dave Ings: We will discuss 97 later in the morning. [9:24] Dave Ings: And 92. [9:24] Dave Ings: and 85 [9:27] Dave Ings: 100 is another discussion candidate [9:29] Dave Ings: 103 too [9:33] Dieter Koenig: Mike R. moves to resolve BP-106 as proposed in jira [9:33] Dieter Koenig: Dieter seconds [9:33] Dieter Koenig: No objections - BP-106 is resolved [9:41] Dieter Koenig: Next topic - open issue discussions [9:41] Dave Ings: 79 too [9:44] Dieter Koenig: Issue 85 discussion [9:44] Dieter Koenig: Proposal at http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200906/msg00028.html [10:04] Martin C: 1 is only through sub-tasks 2 is resue of task 3 is let vendor choose 4 is let user choose [10:11] Dieter Koenig: Mike R. moves to resolve BP-85 based on the proposal from IBM and Oracle (see link above) -- this is option (3) [10:11] Dave Ings: link - http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/bpel4people/email/archives/200906/msg00028.html [10:11] Dieter Koenig: Martin seconds [10:13] Dieter Koenig: Martin amends the motion in order to delete all but the first sentence [10:13] Martin C: WS-HT implementations provide routing tasks with sequential assignment by creating one main task for the sequential routing pattern and one sub task for each sequential assignment. Each sub task identifies its parent using the htdarentTaskId. As an optimization to reduce the number of sub tasks created a WS-HT implementation MAY choose instead of creating sub tasks to assign the main task instance to each of the potential owners of the sequential assignment in sequence. If sub tasks are used for sequential pattern, when a task list is retrieved by an administrator, the administrator sees both the main task and the sub task. In the optimization case there are no sub tasks, and thus the administrator will see just the main task. [10:13] Martin C: proposed amendment: WS-HT implementations provide routing tasks with sequential assignment by creating one main task for the sequential routing pattern and one sub task for each sequential assignment. [10:15] Dieter Koenig: Ivana seconds [10:16] Dieter Koenig: Counted vote ... [10:16] Dieter Koenig: Martin: yes [10:16] Dieter Koenig: Oliver: yes [10:17] Dieter Koenig: Change: Oliver: no [10:17] Dieter Koenig: Gershon: yes [10:18] Dieter Koenig: Ravi: yes [10:18] Dieter Koenig: Alireza: no [10:18] Dieter Koenig: Michael: no [10:18] Dieter Koenig: Alex: no [10:19] Dieter Koenig: Phil: no [10:19] Dieter Koenig: Dieter: no [10:19] Dieter Koenig: Matthias: yes [10:19] Dieter Koenig: Ivana: no [10:20] Dieter Koenig: Hannah: no [10:20] Dieter Koenig: Gerhard: yes [10:21] Dieter Koenig: Ralf: yes [10:21] Dieter Koenig: 8 no, 6 yes [10:22] Dieter Koenig: The amendment fails [10:26] Dieter Koenig: Counted vote on the original motion ... [10:26] Dieter Koenig: 7 yes, 7 no [10:26] Dieter Koenig: Motion fails [10:27] Dieter Koenig: Mike R. moves that sequential routing patterns must use a separate subtask for each step in a sequential pattern [10:29] Dieter Koenig: Dieter seconds [10:31] Phil Allen: Motion to amend [10:32] anonymous morphed into Oliver Kieselbach [10:32] Phil Allen: Replace the second sentence of the following with text as proposed by Michael (section 4.6.1.2, paragraph before 'syntax example' [10:32] Phil Allen: After each user completes the task, the next set of users/groups in htd:sequence SHOULD see the task until the sequence pattern completes. The same task instance SHOULD be assigned to each of the users/groups in sequence. [10:33] Phil Allen: Sequential routing patterns MUST use a separate subtask for each step in a sequential pattern. [10:34] Phil Allen: This would resolve issue 85 with this change [10:34] Dieter Koenig: Mike R. seconds [10:38] Dieter Koenig: No objection - amendment passes [10:38] Dieter Koenig: Now vote on the amended motion [10:38] Dieter Koenig: Ravi objects - counted vote ... [10:41] Dieter Koenig: 11 yes, 3 no [10:41] Dieter Koenig: Amend motion passed [10:41] Dieter Koenig: Coffee break [10:41] Dieter Koenig: Back at 11:00am [11:04] Dieter Koenig: Resuming ... [11:08] Dieter Koenig: Continuing the discussion of Lean Tasks (BP-79) ... [11:10] Dieter Koenig: Straw poll: support the general direction of lean tasks [11:12] Dieter Koenig: 8 yes, 0 no, 1 abstain [12:30] Alex Malek: Three Issues the TC see needing to be addressed after Issue 79 is resolved: 1.Issue: de we need lean tasks in the arch overview? 2.Issue: how should we explain the restriction of interface in lean tasks schema 3.Issue: should we add Register, Unregister and List to support full inter-op between Task Parent and Task Processor [12:30] Dieter Koenig: Alex moves to open 3 issues as shown above [12:31] Dieter Koenig: Phil seconds [12:31] Dieter Koenig: No objection - passed [12:34] Dieter Koenig: Decision: the TC will move to weekly 1 hour meetings held on Wednesdays at 11:00am Eastern [12:39] Dieter Koenig: No AOB [12:40] Dieter Koenig: Meeting adjourned
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