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Subject: RE: [egov] XML Schema Design and Management Guide for Hong Kong SAR Government


John,

Thanks for the encouragement here, I know only too
well the effects of being spread thin!

I'd be happy to liaise between our groups here,
and I've CC'd my CAM team here as way of including
your note and docs.

My very first job in IT (back then it was DP!) 
was working on an electoral roll for Kingston and
Sutton Borough council, so the EML paper brings
back memories.

Right now the rendering part of the CAM spec's
is a developing story; I'm expecting with our
work with UPU/CIQ, and now we can also look at EML,
that for the CAM revision 0.15 we'll have some
strong features here to address the need to
output to multiple specific formats.  
The EML paper uses Tony Blair of course, but 
much more tricky is members of the Royal Family,
as their names are long, complex, titled, and
need to be rendered exactly on the electoral
roll.

We can also discuss a possible F2F meeting in 
October, as I will be in London for the DAMA
conference, 27-29th.

Your other document on guidelines for schema is
more of a challenge and would take more time
to address specific items directly.  My initial
thoughts on a quick scan thru is two possible
additions, one showing how CAM can augment the
existing approach, and another showing how
CAM can be used to capture not just the business
rules and localization but also to create
re-usable XML structure components.

I look forward to collaborating between our teams
on these items.  As you note in your email - its
vital for us to have real-world requirements to
enhance and validate the CAM work and we 
appreciate your inputs.

Thanks, DW.
-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From:	INTERNET:john.borras@e-envoy.gsi.gov.uk, INTERNET:john.borras@e-envoy.gsi.gov.uk
To:	[unknown], Gnosis_
	
Date:	7/18/2003 10:13 AM

RE:	RE: [egov] XML Schema Design and Management Guide for Hong  Kong SAR Government

 
David

As you'll see from exchanges below, we feel that the work of you CAM TC 
may impact our current guidance on XML schemas.  Attached for your 
information are our Guidelines and a document relating to localisation 
that we produced as part of our work on e-voting standards within the E&VS 
TC.   Paul Spencer was the author of both and I'm sure he would welcome 
any comments.

I don't think we can spare the time to join your TC, given everything else 
we're doing here with OASIS, but this is an area that's of great interest 
to us and I'm sure other governments.   Would you be happy for government 
input to the CAM TC to come via a liaison person, ie you, from the e-gov 
TC?  It's all about spreading thin resources around to maximum effect.

Regards,
John



----- Forwarded by John Borras/e-Envoy/CabinetOffice on 18/07/2003 14:45 
-----


"Paul Spencer" <paul.spencer@boynings.co.uk>
17/07/2003 12:15

 
        To:     <john.borras@e-envoy.gsi.gov.uk>, <Adrian.Kent@e-Envoy.gsi.gov.uk>
        cc: 
        Subject:        RE: [egov] XML Schema Design and Management Guide for Hong  Kong SAR 
Government


John,
 
This definitely affects what we have done for localization. As a minimum, 
we should send David our localization paper as an input. I think we should 
go further than this, and take an active part in this committee. 
 
Regards
 
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: john.borras@e-envoy.gsi.gov.uk [mailto:john.borras@e-envoy.gsi.gov.uk]
Sent: 17 July 2003 08:01
To: paul.spencer@boynings.co.uk; Adrian.Kent@e-Envoy.gsi.gov.uk
Subject: Re: [egov] XML Schema Design and Management Guide for Hong Kong SAR 
Government


Guys 
Will the output from the CAM TC have an impact on our approach to schemas? 
John 
----- Forwarded by John Borras/e-Envoy/CabinetOffice on 17/07/2003 07:59 
----- 

David RR Webber - XML ebusiness <Gnosis_@compuserve.com> 
16/07/2003 21:59 
        
        To:        "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com> 
        cc:        "Diane.Lewis@usdoj.gov" <Diane.Lewis@usdoj.gov>, 
"'ytlee@cecid.hku.hk'" <ytlee@cecid.hku.hk>, "'egov@lists.oasis-open.org'" 
<egov@lists.oasis-open.org>, "'john.borras@e-envoy.gsi.gov.uk'" 
<john.borras@e-envoy.gsi.gov.uk> 
        Subject:        Re: [egov] XML Schema Design and Management Guide 
for Hong  Kong SAR  Government



Joe / Thomas,

I just reviewed same.   While the work is extensive - I would
caution that part of the methods detailed are based on the
premise that if you create a W3C Schema XSD definition
that you have created information interoperability.

Particularly the step of converting the business data
analysis into schema code is an issue.

Unfortunately schema is not designed to be able to
do business context driven assembly and to capture
the breadth of rules needed.  Associative content
models are not supported, nor is code values and
versioning, to mention just some.

In the limited case if two government departments
are using a small mandatory schema definition for
a constant piece of information exchange - then in
this subset - its OK.  However then the method
documented becomes a sledgehammer to 
crack a nut.    If you are doing government wide
exchanges of multi-faceted information - you simply
will not be able to manage that level of needs
as described in the method documented.

As I mentioned earlier - this is what OASIS CAM 
will solve for you - being able to do context 
driven assembly and in-depth support for 
metadata and registries via the UID mechanism.
Add this this webservice and BPM integration too.

By way of example - consider addresses.  I would
hazard a guess that the HK gov needs to send
mail to Singapore, Japan, Korea, China (ML) and
Korea.  How would you build a context driven 
structure definition to solve this, based on country
and delivery method and address type (yes there
are typically five address types per country)?

How can you also do lookups from a schema
parser to check that the postcode is not only 
the right pattern - but that the postcode is 
actually valid for that country?

The OASIS CAM team is solving this right now
building templates that match the UPU addressing
rules.   The template will then allow a pluggable
sub-assembly into an XML structure that will 
provide mapping to local address formats 
as a truely re-usable definition set - context driven.

That's just one example.

Thanks, DW.
Chair OASIS CAM TC.
=============================================

Message text written by "Chiusano Joseph"
> 
I reviewed these documents and I am highly impressed with their depth,
clarity, and accuracy.

Kind Regards,
Joe Chiusano
<


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Subject: RE: [egov] XML Schema Design and Management Guide for Hong  Kong SAR
  Government
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e-government_schema_guidelines_for_XML_v3.pdf

Localisation-v1.pdf



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