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Subject: F2F Day 1 Chat Transcript


 

 

From: MartinC [mailto:noreply@soaphub.org]
Sent: 07 November 2012 07:20
To: martin.chapman@oracle.com
Subject: oasis-camp: Chat Transcript - sent by: MartinC

 

Chat transcript from room: oasis-camp
2012-11-06 GMT-08:00
[11:36] Duncan Johnston-Watt (Cloudsoft): Tel Aviv is back online for walk through
[11:36] scribe: we're back
[11:37] scribe: anish will present the CAMP overview
[11:38] scribe: note to chair: add SVN mechanics to thursday administrivia agenda slot
[11:39] Duncan Johnston-Watt (Cloudsoft): @anish a level set is good
[12:29] Duncan Johnston-Watt (Cloudsoft): @MartinC - I'm going to have to drop off - look forward to round up
[12:29] scribe: thx duncan
[12:29] MartinC: thanks Duncan, have a good evening
[12:46] scribe: break for lunch ? back at 14:00 PST
[12:46] scribe: shutting down the bridge now
[13:28] anonymous morphed into Dale Moberg
[13:52] gilbert.pilz: what is the URL for the webex session?
[13:56] Prasad: https://oracleconferencing.webex.com/oracleconferencing/j.php?J=593156882&PW=NNTBiYjMyZDM2
[13:56] Michael Behrens: Thanks.
[13:57] Prasad: Meeting Number: 593 156 882 Meeting Password: CAMP
[14:00] MartinC: just waiting for people to return from lunch
[14:02] anonymous morphed into Keith Grange (JumpSoft)
[14:04] scribe morphed into jeffm
[14:05] jeffm: we are starting again
[14:05] Rich Miller (Cloudsoft): Good afternoon. Rich Miller here.
[14:05] jeffm: and we need to find a scribe ? Mr. chair should pick a victim
[14:10] MartinC asked for a victim, I choose... Tobias Kunze (Red Hat)
[14:11] gilbert.pilz: gil yammers on for what seems like an hour
[14:12] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) morphed into scribe
[14:12] scribe morphed into Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing
[14:12] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: gil is about to present
[14:13] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: gil presenting
[14:20] Michael Behrens: Shared Components vice Private Components: Interesting attibute.
[14:22] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: gils demo is not 100% CAMP-compliant right now
[14:26] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: chair is calling meeting to order
[14:27] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Adrian asked whether we should prohibit deletion of assembly templates while assemblies instantiated from them are running. Discussion ensued.
[14:31] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Discussion: what does "portability" mean? Does it include application portability or are we just talking about portability of the management api?
[14:31] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Discussion ensues
[14:37] Rich Miller (Cloudsoft): Thanks for putting it into the chat. It is a bit difficult to follow the conversation.
[14:39] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: @Rich: we'll maintain the chat a bit better now--speakers are summarizing their points after making them)
[14:41] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Tobias points out that there is a parallel discussion within the TOSCA TC, where it has been decided to move such issues (i.e. what PlatformComponents to define vs. how to define them) into a "Best Practices" section and concentrate on the "how".
[14:42] Dave Jilk: To summarize my comment: The spec should provide enough detail to enable vendors to assist portability regarding platform components and parameters; but not to get into the actual details of platform components or even their classification.
[14:43] gilbert.pilz: +1
[14:43] gilbert.pilz: YES!
[14:43] gilbert.pilz: (to simplicity)
[14:44] Michael Behrens: Simple is good. Beyond specific attributes for portability, etc.... perhaps by using something along the lines of a platform service MIME type, we could have a simple way to let ADE's express a way to request services (database, messaging, web, etc).
[14:45] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Discussion concludes
[14:46] gilbert.pilz: Between the extremes of "too simple" and "too complicated" - "too simple" is the safer option, if you want the spec to gain adoption
[14:46] Adrian Otto (Rackspace): my comment was that interoperability is something that a specification alone probably does not solve. It will need more, including registries of common solutions, open source software for reference implementations, or other implements. We should try to focus CAMP on the "just enough" we need in the spec, that could be strengthened by a surrounding ecosystem to further the interoperability goals.
[14:46] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Tobias: +1 to Adrian
[14:47] gilbert.pilz: +1 "enabling interoperability" is the best a spec can hope for
[14:47] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Anish to walk through issues
[14:48] Jacques (Fujitsu): OK with *accepting* 1st batch of issues
[14:50] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: there is a discussion on whether to accept issues during the review or to wait after we review with more time
[15:02] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Gil moves to accept CAMP-1, seconded by Jeff
[15:06] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Everybody agrees to disagree
[15:08] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Adrian points out that having these discussions today has intrinsic educational value independent of whether CAMP-1 has merit
[15:10] gilbert.pilz: metadata is mentioned on line 356 of the submission spec
[15:11] gilbert.pilz: and lines 474, 488, and 519
[15:11] gilbert.pilz: 715, 762, etc.
[15:11] gilbert.pilz: so, yes, our spec does talk about metadata
[15:12] jeffm: why does it matter whehter or not metadata is mentioned?
[15:12] gilbert.pilz: (MarkC asserted that "nowhere in our spec do we talk about metadata")
[15:12] jeffm: right - and i don't understand how it is relevant
[15:12] gilbert.pilz: because Anish's issue mentions metadata
[15:13] jeffm: this just a general description of an rather generic issue - if we are going to parse every issue description in this kind of minute detail ? lets just shoot ourselves now
[15:14] Mark Carlson (Oracle): I think Anish made a good argument that we need something "new" and a new term for it
[15:14] Mark Carlson (Oracle): we can decide later whether it is called metadata or something else
[15:14] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Discussion has been terminated in fairly civil manner
[15:14] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: moving on to CAMP-2
[15:14] gilbert.pilz: actually there are whole ton of use cases in his issue
[15:15] gilbert.pilz: "discover extension attributes to CAMP-defined resources"
[15:15] gilbert.pilz: "discover extension resources"
[15:16] Charlie Tupitza (JumpSoft): I called to closed the question. there was no objection so we moved on and voted to accept the question
[15:17] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Adjourning
[15:17] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: for coffee break
[15:17] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Reconvening 23:30 UTC
[15:36] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Session opens
[15:37] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: CAMP-10: API + Model Extensions
[15:37] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-10
[15:39] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Ahsok moves to open CAMP-10, Anish seconds
[15:42] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: we need to upload the OpenStack extensibility presentation
[15:42] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Action item for Anish
[15:43] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Next issue: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-14 How are supported formats discovered
[15:45] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Anish moves to open, Dave seconds, no objection
[15:48] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Next: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-2: What is the purpose of the "Definition" attribute?
[15:49] jeffm: ping
[15:49] gilbert.pilz: ack
[15:51] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Anish moves to open, Gil seconds, no discussion, no objection
[15:52] Anish Karmarkar6: ping
[15:53] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Tobias moves to resolve CAMP-2 by removing the "Definitions" attribute
[15:54] Dave Jilk2 morphed into Dave Jilk
[15:54] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Tobias moves to accept proposal in CAMP-2, Anish seconds
[15:55] gilbert.pilz: This attribute contains the definition of the AssemblyTemplate represented in some format, such as XML, that contains the metadata necessary for the platform to deploy the Application.
[15:57] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Jacques opposes the motion
[15:59] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Discussion regarding possibly tabling the motion so newcomers have more time
[15:59] Prasad: The issue refers to Section '7'. In the OASIS submission version is is section '5'. The issue CMAP-2 decription should be updated accordingly
[15:59] Prasad: s/is is/it is/
[16:00] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Motion fails to carry due to popular support
[16:00] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Next: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-3 How do application packages get uploaded into the cloud?
[16:02] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Anish moves to open, Tobias seconds, some discussion around wrong section references, no objections, motion carries
[16:03] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-4 Need a formal specification of the PDP format
[16:05] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Tobias s:Ashok d:no o:none - carries
[16:06] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-5 Suggest to simplify {Application,Platform} Component {Requiremnets,Capability}
[16:06] jeffm: Obama currently leads Romney 65%-33% in NH (that would be 28-14 votes)
[16:06] gilbert.pilz: move to adopt omnibus position that, unless it is obviously otherwise, all problems, snafus, etc. are MarkC's fault
[16:08] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Tobias s:Prasad d:no o:none -- carries
[16:08] gilbert.pilz: for example, there are not enough cookies
[16:09] gilbert.pilz: MarkC's fault
[16:09] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-6 Are application components independent of assemblies?
[16:10] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Anish s:Tobias d:no o:none -- carries
[16:10] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-7 The type "Snapshot" is not defined
[16:12] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Anish s:Charles d:- o:- -- carries
[16:13] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-8 Support a hierarchical model of platform components at runtime (or typed relationships between such components)
[16:13] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Will hold off on issue until Cloudsoft is operative
[16:13] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-9 Support sensors and effectors on components via API
[16:13] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: will hold off as well so Alex can present
[16:14] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-11 _expression_ of Scaling Policy
[16:23] Adrian Otto (Rackspace)1: Service providers implementing a CAMP platform would like to be able to offer auto-scale as a feature. Provide some facilities that allow a policy to be expressed within the platform, perhaps when an application assembly is instantiated, that will describe which policy should be used for managing that assembly.
[16:25] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Anish s:David d:- o:- -- carries
[16:25] Adrian Otto (Rackspace)1: Furthermore, we would like to be able to allow CAMP to manage an auto-scale policy so that those service providers can offer the service in a way that allows that policy to be portable between CAMP platforms.
[16:27] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-12 Clarify Scope of Application Components
[16:27] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: xmpp acting up
[16:27] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Chair is on bio-break
[16:29] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Chair returns
[16:29] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Gil s:Charles d:- o:- -- carries
[16:30] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-13 Media Type "type" argument not compatible with Python request parsers
[16:32] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Anish s:Tobias d:- o:- -- carries
[16:33] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-15 Use message-id and profile rather than uri and namespace
[16:37] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Tobias s:Anish d:- o:- -- issue opened
[16:38] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-16 Introduce non-Java use cases and/or examples
[16:43] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Jeff s:Anish d:- o:- -- opened
[16:43] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-17 Figures should be redrawn
[16:45] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Gil s:Tobias d:- o:- -- opened
[16:45] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-18 API Authentication/Authorization not clear and should leave scope for other auth mechanisms
[16:48] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Ashok s:Tobias d:- o:- opened
[16:48] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-19 SSL Cipher Suite
[16:50] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Ashok s:Charles d:[Tobias would like to see SSL/TLS outside the spec entirely] o:- opened
[16:50] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-20 Failure to deploy when dependencies are not resolved is not workable
[16:53] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Gil s:Tobias d:- o:- opened
[16:53] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-21 Clarify that App Developers/Admins cannot assume what the Assembly Template tree looks like until post-deploy
[17:00] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Gil s:Anish d:[Tobias is against this issue; chair happy to rephrase] o:- -- opened
[17:00] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-22 Requirement resources are problematic
[17:09] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Charles s:David d:[a lot] o:{Tobias,Mark} v:8:2 -- opened
[17:10] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-23 Merge Capability and Template resources
[17:19] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Heated discussion around requirements and capabilities in general, mutual non-understanding among the TC
[17:22] gilbert.pilz: draft Tobias for vice chair!
[17:22] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Gil s:Jeff d:heated o:Tobias -- opened
[17:23] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-25 Refine link structure
[17:26] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Tobias s:Charles d:- o:- opened
[17:26] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Anish to update the issue
[17:26] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: with references from Drupal
[17:28] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-24 Assembly Template and Assembly trees are not analogous
[17:30] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: m:Gil s:Tobias d:- o:- opened
[17:31] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: TC thanks Scribe for terrific scribing
[17:32] Tobias Kunze (Red Hat) -- scribing: Recessed for the day



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