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Subject: Draft Minutes 19th December 2012
Meeting Minutes 19th December 2012
Attendees:
Behrens, Michael US Department of Defense (DoD) Voting Member
Byreddy, Bhaskar Reddy Software AG, Inc. Voting Member
Carlson, Mark Oracle Voting Member
Chapman, Martin Oracle Chair
Durand, Jacques Fujitsu Limited Voting Member
Heneveld, Alex Cloudsoft Corporation Limited Member
Janssen, Gershon Individual Voting Member
Johnston-Watt, Duncan Cloudsoft Corporation Limited Member
Karmarkar, Anish Oracle Voting Member
Kunze, Tobias Red Hat Voting Member
Luster, Eugene US Department of Defense (DoD) Voting Member
Malhotra, Ashok Oracle Voting Member
Miller, Rich Cloudsoft Corporation Limited Voting Member
Mischkinsky, Jeff Oracle Voting Member
Otto, Adrian Rackspace Hosting, Inc. Secretary
Pilz, Gilbert Oracle Voting Member
Rutt, Tom Fujitsu Limited Voting Member
Song, Zhexuan Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. Voting Member
West, Jeffrey Oracle Member
Yendluri, Prasad Software AG, Inc. Voting Member
17 of 19, 89% - meeting is quorate
Intro:
Scribe - Alex Heneveld assumes scribe duties
Roll: Attendees listed above
17 of 19, 89% - meeting is quorate
Agenda: approved as posted
Minutes:
12th December: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/camp/email/archives/201212/msg00063.html
Correction from Adrian: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/camp/email/archives/201212/msg00065.html
Motion: m: Jeff, s: Tom makes a motion to adopt minutes of 12th December as corrected by Adrian.
Passed w/o
Administrivia:
Next meeting: Next week's mtg cancelled, Next scheduled is Jan 2nd. Will people be back from time off for the 2nd?
Prasad: I cannot make Jan 2nd
anish: i can make it
jeffm: how about cancel it if there is nothing much to do or cut it short
No objections to meeting the following week, 2nd Jan, so that will be scheduled - a draft agenda will be sent before the holidays.
Prasad: Can we get a special exemption for the roll
(Prasad's question was unanswered at the meeting, but the only exemption would be to request a leave of absence)
Jacques requested 5-10m on test assertions wd.
Cloud Connect 2013:
Email from Jane: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/camp/email/archives/201212/msg00085
Michael Behrens: FYI: http://www.cloudconnectevent.com/santaclara/
Many volunteers who could present unless they have to travel
We agreed that someone in the TC will present. Chair to communicate with Jane.
Timing for a F2F would coincide with this April date, though do not need to commit to that now
Editing Team Update:
Test Assertions WD01 status: put on agenda for next meeting
Spec WD02 discussed. People invited to review. https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/camp/email/archives/201212/msg00083.html
Clarification requested on closing issues. Not to be closed until committee agrees and moves a wd to a committee specification draft.
Working drafts can be updated / added as needed.
CSDs can just be uploaded to the TC doc repository, or can be more formally published into docs.oasis-open.org via TC Admin.
Jeff notes all updates all public, even TC work.
New issues:
http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-37 Need to be able to re-organize application components without uploading PDPs
Motion: m: Mark, s: Eugene to OPEN this issue.
No discussion. No objections. Motion carried.
Issue Discussion:
https://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-2 What is the purpose of the Definitions attribute?
Proposal from Mark Carlson - deferred from F2F
Gil: "Propose to resolve this issue by deleting the Definitions attribute from all resources."
Motion: m: Mark, s: Gil resolve camp-2 with proposal in JIRA i.e. removal of "definitions" attribute.
Minor discussion. No objections. Passed w/o
https://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-6 Are application component independent of assemblies?
Proposal from Gil
A lot of discussion. Some feel distinction as presented is confusing in some places.
Comment that there are distinctions at present. Discussion about how useful this is.
Motion: m:Gil, s: Adrian moves to resolve issue 6 with the proposal in Jira.
No discussion or objections, motion passed w/o
https://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-32 CAMP needs to say something about the serialization of null attribute values and empty arrays
Concrete proposal from Gil: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/camp/email/archives/201212/msg00078.html
Counter proposal from Tobias: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/camp/email/archives/201212/msg00079.html
Gil proposes JSON style should be to omit null value and empty arrays (as a recommendation)
Adrian supportive.
Tom wonders why not go further and require null values to be omitted: it makes testing harder.
Gil replies some libraries make that behaviour difficult.
Gil: "may make" conforming to "MUST NOT incluude null attributes" difficult
Adrian Otto (Rackspace): Referring to the external documentation is how the JSON culture works.
... We do have an issue for having a facility to discover what attributes a resource supports, and metadata bout them, such as types, etc.
... what is that issue number, Anish?
anish: @adrian, the issue number is 1 https://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-1
Tobias proposes alternate approach where all fields should be explicit, including null values.
This facilitates clients knowing the fields without reference to external documentation and is a common practice wrt configuration files.
Adrian Otto (Rackspace): Not recommending an approach here will lead to interop issues.
Tom points out that a requirement for null fields makes extensibility harder.
Tom further notes he now understands why Gil proposes this be a recommendation only (not a requirement) and supports proposal
Adrian speaks to points noted above
anish: btw, unlike Unix config files, JSON does not allow comments
Michael Behrens: I have to leave early (regetfully). I'm in favor of the 32 proposal (omit nulls).
Jacques notes merit in Tobias's position -- particularly in the absence of good metadata
Tobias clarifies advantage of his proposal for interoperability where fields may be different between versions, although it does not solve all semantic issues.
Tobias argues that if your json library cannot handle explicit nulls then you should use a different library.
Gil makes a motion to close to the issue with no action on the basis that it has taken up a lot of time and is largely a religious argument. Tom seconds.
Motion: m: Gil, s: Tom to close issue 32 with no action.
Tom says Gils proposal is too wishy-washy. Prefers concrete such as the motion to close.
Tobias Kunze (Red Hat): There are technical difficulties on the interoperability side but giving in to them will be a detriment for the user. In my mind user convenience trumps technical issues.
No discussion.
Tobias objects.
Adrian abstains.
Motion carries with 1 abstention and 1 against.
Martin notes we can always revisit this if testing turns up issues.
Duncan Johnston-Watt (Cloudsoft): Agree with Martin's comment that we may need to revisit this downstream
https://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-34
Adrian wants 34 to be assigned to someone to encourage the likelihood of a proposal
Adrian is volunteered, and accepts
He is further volunteered for related issue #36, and accepts
issue 30 noted as related to 34 + 36, should be considered together
http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/CAMP-35 Spec needs to clarify the constraints on the relationship between Assembly Templates and Application Component Templates
Proposal from Mark: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/camp/download.php/47751/camp-spec-v1.1-wd01-camp35.doc
Mark summarises proposal
Jacques (Fujitsu): just make the wording more precise then... ("not exist too vague")
anish: why don't we just say it is mandatory with non-null value?
MartinC : is not accessible/not gettable
Motion: m: Mark, s: Tom moves to accept proposal in jira and to remove " and shall not exist without this relationship" from the proposal.
No discussion. No objections. Passed w/o
AOB
Anish requests discussion of csd for 9 Jan mtg
final roll
holiday wishes to all
Meeting Adjourned.
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