RE: [cgmo-webcgm] about transform [was RE: [cgmo-webcgm] Groups - Proposed WebCGM 2.1 ...]

["Weidenbrueck, Dieter" <dweidenbrueck@ptc.com>]

Lofton,,

There are several issues with this:

- user experience
	We wonder how many users are capable of building transform
matrices
	by concatenating them using EcmaScript. This requires quite a
level
	of mathematical skills.
- violation of object orientation
	So far, we tried to avoid anything that would force the user to
enter
	coordinates or similar absolute values because of the issue that
these
	values would be void after a revision of the file. 
	Maybe we can't avoid this here, but it is quite unfortunate
then.
- reference points
	Rotation, scaling, reflection all happen with regard to a
reference
	point. Since the script writer needs such a center for example,
let's
	consider his user experience:
	- start with a script in some text editor
	- determine that you want to rotate something, e.g. a line to
open
	  a switch.
	- open the CGM file in a CGM Editor
	- ensure that the line is a separate grobject, because otherwise
it 
	  can't be rotated
	- find the center of rotation on the illustration
	- try to understand the coordinate systems
		- probably metric in the illustration program	
		- map it to the resulting VDC extent
		- calculate the reference point into something that is
		  meaningful at use time
	- go back to your script
	- enter the reference point
	- be happy, you just rotated a single line, others are
waiting...
	This doesn't look like anything desirable to me to be honest.
	Think about what happens after a revision of a schematics. Since
	every single rotation point of a switch needs to be expressed
individually
	(if the same switch is used 100 times on the schematic, there
are 100
	different centers of rotation), this will be a nightmare after a
revision.
- transforms as style properties
	another level of complexity, now we have those coordinates in
the XCF,
	and the XCF becomes revision dependent.
- animation
	the described functionality should not be called animation,
because this
	is not what it is. Animation is change over time, which is not
the case here.
	These are manipulations of geometry only.

Just a few thoughts.

Regards,
Dieter

-----Original Message-----
From: Lofton Henderson [mailto:lofton@rockynet.com] 
Sent: Dienstag, 4. September 2007 17:20
To: Bezaire, Benoit; cgmo-webcgm@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [cgmo-webcgm] about transform [was RE: [cgmo-webcgm] Groups -
Proposed WebCGM 2.1 ...]

Hi Benoit,

One question about your comments, and a question to everyone at
Seattle...

At 10:25 AM 9/4/2007 -0400, Bezaire, Benoit wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I will be on the call tomorrow. Dieter will try to attend but his 
>schedule may prevent him from doing so.
>
>Here's our position on the 2.1 requirements:
>- substring hotspots: ok.
>- text search: ok for example; we think the general text search 
>functionality should be a viewer feature as oppose to a DOM interface.
>i.e., why should a user have to write javascript to search for text in 
>a CGM file?
>- animation:
>  1) we do not see our dev team implementing a transform interface, we 
>think it will result in a bad user experience.

I'm curious whether you ever managed to arrange to see the demo that
Molly and Larry showed us in Seattle?

I'd like to hear from the other attendees, but I got the impression that
everyone thought availability of transform (at least as a Style
Property) would be useful to them in implementing their "discount
animation" more efficiently than they presently are able.

Comments?  (Everyone!)

Regards,
-Lofton.

>  2) zoom and pan interface: no objection.
>  3) additional style properties: we need more info.
>- improved font interchange: ok.
>- z-compression: ok.
>- clarify transparency: ok.
>
>Cheers,
>Benoit.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: david.w.cruikshank@boeing.com
>[mailto:david.w.cruikshank@boeing.com]
>Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 6:20 PM
>To: cgmo-webcgm@lists.oasis-open.org
>Subject: [cgmo-webcgm] Groups - Proposed WebCGM 2.1 enhancements
>(WebCGM_21_list_r2.html) uploaded
>
>updated the WebCGM 2.1 enhancement document again to add the 
>interaction of transparency
>
>  -- Mr. david cruikshank
>
>The document revision named Proposed WebCGM 2.1 enhancements
>(WebCGM_21_list_r2.html) has been submitted by Mr. david cruikshank to 
>the OASIS CGM Open WebCGM TC document repository.  This document is 
>revision #2 of WebCGM_21_list.html.
>
>Document Description:
>This is a draft document identifying potential WebCGM 2.1 functionality

>enhancements.
>
>Added the functionalilty of z-compression left out in the original 
>document
>
>Rev 2 added the transparency issue
>
>View Document Details:
>http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/cgmo-webcgm/document.php?d
>o
>cument_id=25179
>
>Download Document:
>http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/cgmo-webcgm/download.php/2
>5
>179/WebCGM_21_list_r2.html
>
>Revision:
>This document is revision #2 of WebCGM_21_list.html.  The document 
>details page referenced above will show the complete revision history.
>
>
>PLEASE NOTE:  If the above links do not work for you, your email 
>application may be breaking the link into two pieces.  You may be able 
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>-OASIS Open Administration