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Subject: Re: [chairs] Subtleties in the OASIS TC Member Attendance Rules
I appreciate the input (and always happy to hear suggestions) but this is something that I'll have to bring up with the Board's TC Process subcommittee, who is currently working on a revision of the Process document. -Karl jon.bosak@sun.com wrote: > It seems that several of us are in agreement on the desirability > of creating an official category for members of a TC mailing list > who are not also members (strictly speaking) of a TC. The > question is what to call this category. Scott likes "nonvoting > member" for marketing reasons. Eduardo and I dislike this > nomenclature because in parliamentary practice (meaning Robert's, > which specifies 99.9 per cent of the rules that govern formal TC > operation) the word "member" means "voting member," "voting > member" is frowned upon as a term containing a redundancy, and > "nonvoting member" is considered to be a contradiction in terms. > > I suggest that we try for a category name that does not contain an > internal contradiction but serves better for marketing purposes > than "observer with posting privileges." How about "participant"? > That would not only serve almost as well as "member" in the resume > scenario but would also have the benefit of truthfully > representing the nature of one's involvement in the process. > > Jon > > Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:34:26 -0700 > From: Eduardo Gutentag <Eduardo.Gutentag@sun.com> > Cc: Jon.Bosak@sun.com, karl.best@oasis-open.org, hlockhar@bea.com, > chairs@lists.oasis-open.org > > Seems like I said something that was open to misinterpretation. So, > just in case, I'd like to clarify that my comment, "What I would like > to see is for the Kavi process to follow the OASIS TC process and not > the other way around..." was not meant in any way to disparage the > participation of observers in the mailing lists. What I did mean, > though, was that I did not think it was appropriate to munge TC > participation with mailing list participation; that until very > recently there was no language separating the two, and those who > wanted to monitor the lists were invited to join the TCs, thus > potentially inflating the ranks of the quorum-busters ;). When a > chair goes to the Add a member section of the roster maintenance > page, the chair is still told that someone can be added as a member > of the TC because he/she has qualified according to the rules, which > is false, and that some ballots may allow only members with voting > privileges to vote, which is also false, because according to the > process there are no such ballots, IOW only voting members (which > is the only kind of *TC* members there are) can vote... > > So it's not that I'm unhappy with the functionality of the mailing > lists; it the language and lack of differentiation between mailing > lists and TCs that make me less than happy. > > Scott McGrath wrote: > > Allow me to toss out a members' perspective, one that has little to do > > with the strictly technical components of TC participation. > > > People derive benefits from > > 'being a member" of OASIS TCs for a lot of different reasons. Some such > > reasons are strictly warm and fuzzy stuff--it makes them feel like an > > important part of the process. Further, I would wager OASIS TC > > membership is in more than a few employee performance evaluations, goals > > etc as a measure of meeting some corporate objective. > > > That said, we should be careful not to marginalize or sideline those > > that can only contribute minimally and cannot commit to travel, meeting > > attendance, concalls at 3am etc I think Jon's point is valid, these > > members are an important part of the process and we should find ways to > > enable that. (remembering these are dues paying members like all others) > > > Notwithstanding the contradictory nature of the term non-voting member, > > I think it serves the above needs well and I think one intuitively knows > > what these mean. I think grouping those with some valid input with > > other non-contributing Observers is less correct than grouping all > > contributing persons as members, where only those seeking and abiding by > > the restrictions have voting rights, quorum implications etc. > > > Scott... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jon.bosak@sun.com [mailto:jon.bosak@sun.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:37 PM > > To: karl.best@oasis-open.org > > Cc: Eduardo.Gutentag@sun.com; Jon.Bosak@sun.com; hlockhar@bea.com; > > chairs@lists.oasis-open.org > > Subject: Re: [chairs] Subtleties in the OASIS TC Member Attendance Rules > > > I certainly don't disagree with the premise that the kavi > > interface should align with the official OASIS TC process, but I > > am finding the category that allows observers to post on occasion > > to be extremely useful from an organizational standpoint. The > > problem, as I see it, lies in calling this category "nonvoting > > member," which from a parliamentary standpoint is a contradiction > > in terms. The interface should be distinguishing between > > "read/write" and "read-only" observers rather than between "voting" > > and "nonvoting" members. > > > | I'm working an fixes to Kavi to support this, but unfortunately > > | it's not going well... > > > Since we're starting to depend fairly heavily on the (badly named) > > "nonvoting member" category, I'm actually glad to hear that you're > > not making rapid progress on fixing this.... > > > Jon > > You may leave a Technical Committee at any time by visiting http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/chairs/members/leave_workgroup.php > > > -- ================================================================= Karl F. Best Vice President, OASIS office +1 978.667.5115 x206 mobile +1 978.761.1648 karl.best@oasis-open.org http://www.oasis-open.org
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