Re: [chairs] RE: [members] OASIS member review of proposed revision of TC Process

[Eduardo Gutentag <Eduardo.Gutentag@Sun.COM>]

I think that probably the main difficulty in all this is a poorly
worded paragraph, and an unclearly communicated intention.

Let's start with the motivation. As you all know, one of the salient
characteristics of OASIS is its openness not just as regards its
members but also as regards the public in general (and whoever doubts this
should compare OASIS practices with those of other organizations; very
few, if any, for instance, have world open archives of all email lists;
very few have member open Board minutes; etc.) So it is imperative that
this openness be protected and enhanced. The paragraph in question is designed to
make sure that activities that would endanger this opennes are precluded.
For instance, TC members communicating officially through a yahoo group
would pose a grave danger to the openness of the process, since there would
be no archived trace of those communications. To deposit spec drafts in a
cvs repository outside of OASIS and only from time to time bring in milestones,
depriving people outside of the TC (that is, people who may not know of the
existence of the repository) the ability to trace the evolution of a spec,
would also threaten the openness and accountability of the process.

I could come up with many other examples, but let's not make this
unnecessarily long. Just remember also that when the new IPR policy takes
effect and things like Participation Obligation become important, having
a proper archive of events, who's who, what's what and all that, becomes
extra important.

So what was that paragraph's intention? Simply that TC activities should take
place in the space provided to the TC by OASIS with the tools provided to the
TC by OASIS. Does that cover external efforts associated with the TC? Of course
not. How could it? Does that cover the communications between some TC members
(but not the TC itself)? Of course not. Does that preclude mirrorring the
TC's documents in some other location? Of course not, as long as it's clear
which is the canonical copy. And so on and so forth.

Now, if someone could come up with a suggested new version of the paragraph
that reflects all this....

Thanks!

PS -- btw, these are my opinions only, they don't reflect the opinions of anybody
else or any given body, etc. etc.



On 10/14/2004 08:20 AM, Rex Brooks wrote:
> The more I think about this, the more onerous it becomes. I understand 
> the need to have accountability that is underneath this requirement, but 
> compatibility with previous efforts tends to make it unworkable as an 
> absolute restriction. There are also external efforts associated with TC 
> standards efforts, such as FreebXML hosted on SourceForge, as are other 
> efforts, where testbeds are required to test the workability and 
> interoperability of standards, quite apart from associated collateral 
> materials that we development as individuals or as companies, things 
> like white papers, glossaries, etc., that are not strictly OASIS 
> contributions but which form part of the bulwark of materials that 
> support a standard or set of standards and are indispensable to 
> promotion and adoption of a standard.
> 
> This all requires much more thought.
> 
> Ciao,
> Rex
> 
> At 9:21 AM -0400 10/14/04, Norman Walsh wrote:
> 
>> / Matthew MacKenzie <mattm@adobe.com> was heard to say:
>> | "All resources of the TC and its associated
>> | subcommittees, including web pages, documents, email
>> | lists and any other discussions, must be located only
>> | on facilities provided by OASIS; TCs and SCs may not
>> | conduct business or technical discussions, store
>> | documents, or host web pages on non-OASIS servers. All
>> | web pages, documents, and email archives of all TCs
>> | and SCs shall be publicly visible."
>> |
>> | So...will OASIS also be providing us with email accounts?  I suggest
>> | softening this passage considerably because at the end of the day if
>> | OASIS restricts the tools we use,  many of us will end up finding a
>> | new home for our standards work.
>>
>> Indeed. Quoting the message I sent to the review list[1] before I
>> noticed that discussion was taking place here:
>>
>>>   All resources of the TC and its associated subcommittees, including
>>>   web pages, documents, email lists and any other discussions, must be
>>>   located only on facilities provided by OASIS; TCs and SCs may not
>>>   conduct business or technical discussions, store documents, or host
>>>   web pages on non-OASIS servers.
>>>
>>> By a strict interpretation of this clause, I am forbidden from
>>> mirroring the DocBook specifications and schemas on docbook.org. Is
>>> that the intent? Or is the intent merely that no TC content may appear
>>> solely on non-OASIS servers?
>>>
>>> Suppose a third party, unaffiliated with OASIS or the TC constructs
>>> such a mirror? Will OASIS pursue having those materials removed from
>>> the mirror?
>>
>>
>> I feel compelled also to note that this requirement places a
>> considerable burden on chairs and secretaries coming as it does in
>> advance of an improved (i.e. useful and workable) document repository
>> administered by OASIS.
>>
>>                                         Be seeing you,
>>                                           norm
>>
>> [1] 
>> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tcproc-member-review/200410/msg00001.html 
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Norman.Walsh@Sun.COM / XML Standards Architect / Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>> NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended
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> 
> 
> 

-- 
Eduardo Gutentag               |         e-mail: eduardo.gutentag@Sun.COM
Web Technologies and Standards |         Phone:  +1 510 550 4616 (internal x31442)
Sun Microsystems Inc.          |         W3C AC Rep / W3C AB / OASIS BoD