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Subject: RE: [chairs] Proposal to address Open Source concerns


If I am not mistaken the Technical Standardization Committee of the ABA
Science and Technology Section is just compiling a group of clauses
around these kinds of issues. If it will help I can make inquiries of
the leadership of the committee. 

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: RE: [chairs] Proposal to address Open Source concerns
> From: "Wachob, Gabe" <gwachob@visa.com>
> Date: Wed, February 23, 2005 1:58 pm
> To: "James Bryce Clark" <jamie.clark@oasis-open.org>,
> chairs@lists.oasis-open.org
> 
> Jamie-
> 	For my clarification, what exactly do you mean by "inboard" vs.
> "outboard"? I think everything I'm suggesting here is "outboard", but
> I'm not sure what definition you have. 
> 
> 	Secondly, I'm not sure why certification comes into play. If a
> TC uses a patent/trademark/copyright specification license that the OSI
> folks have approved, there's no additional "certification" or liability
> shift required. Using a mark created and managed by the OSI are useful
> in expressing conformance to the intent of the OSI ideals and
> definitions, but in no way changes guarantees (or, more specifically,
> the *lack* of guarantees) about the lack of IPR encumberances on a
> specification (ie a non-OASIS-member third party can always assert
> patent claims no matter what a TC does). 
> 
> 	Finally, I was trying to suggest that instead of having multiple
> licenses that would be OSI certified, TC's would essentially have to use
> *one* (or one of a small handful) if they wanted to use the "Open Source
> Compatible". These licenses would be pre-approved by OSI - that's where
> I was suggesting the coordination would *have* to occur. 
> 
> 	-Gabe
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: James Bryce Clark [mailto:jamie.clark@oasis-open.org] 
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 9:44 AM
> > To: Wachob, Gabe; chairs@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: Re: [chairs] Proposal to address Open Source concerns
> > 
> >      Gabe (and team), thanks very much for a constructive 
> > suggestion.  I 
> > have a couple of preliminary comments below.  However, my principal 
> > response is to forward your message to the OASIS staff and Board.
> > 
> > At 04:23 PM 2/22/2005, Wachob, Gabe wrote:
> > >Chairs-  Both the XRI and XDI TC's were contacted directly 
> > by signatories 
> > >to Larry Rosen's open letter * * * We pointed out that both TCs have 
> > >always had the commitment to RF in our charters, * * *  
> > However it became 
> > >clear to us in this dialog that there was a very real danger 
> > that those 
> > >who find issue with RAND in open standards could "tar all 
> > OASIS TCs with 
> > >the same brush". * * * However, we are also worried that the 
> > if OASIS does 
> > >not respond to the concerns of the Open Source community, 
> > there may be 
> > >strong incentive for potential Open-Source-friendly work to 
> > go elsewhere * 
> > >* * Our proposal is to have appropriate TCs use a prominent 
> > label/logo to 
> > >indicate that the TC's output is is "Open Source(tm) 
> > Compatible". * * 
> > >*  Since the Open Source community already defines the 
> > meaning of "Open 
> > >Source", we believe the best way to do move forward would be 
> > to engage the 
> > >Open Source community
> > 
> >      I think this is an interesting idea.  Note, it would be 
> > possible to do 
> > some kind of assurance or certifying from the inside *or* the 
> > outside.  We 
> > are at the brainstorming stage, so let's not rule anything 
> > out.  Let me 
> > mention, though, that I see some possible implementation 
> > drawbacks if this 
> > were done internally.
> >      One is, who certifies?  Who's liable?  And as you point 
> > out, some 
> > parties assert trademark & copyright on some phrases & definitions.
> >      The other is, frankly, my own aspiration to *reduce* 
> > patent lawyer use 
> > around here, not increase it.  Let me be blunt:  my hope, for 
> > the revised 
> > policy, was that by providing some pre-shipped and automatic 
> > licensing 
> > modes, we would help our TCs spend less of their 
> > standards-making cycles on 
> > patent debates.  Not more.
> >      Which raises the question, where *should* legitimate 
> > issues about 
> > licensing terms be raised?  Well, at OASIS we have a 
> > membership vote on 
> > each standard for this.  Everyone's welcome to vote projects 
> > up or down, 
> > for any reason, including patent-related concerns.  .
> >      Quite a few standards groups -- most of them, in our 
> > space -- have had 
> > projects badly slowed, or completely trashed, by long license 
> > controversies.  Everyone's trying to resolve that same issue 
> > -- *where* do 
> > we properly and more productively channel those issues for resolution?
> >      Some consortia have tried to address this by taking the 
> > decision out 
> > of the working technical body -- and putting it into a 
> > special star-chamber 
> > committee, or their top-level nonpublic board, or a single, 
> > Jon-Postel-type 
> > omnipotent leader.  I'm not so sure that's a good idea.  It 
> > gets back to my 
> > original point:  who gets to do the certifying?  If you want papal 
> > blessings, you have to have a Pope.  Popes, 
> > and-let's-make-a-secret-deal-at-the-top solutions generally, aren't a 
> > supported feature at OASIS.
> >       So I am a little skeptical of inboard, versus outboard, 
> > solutions.  Still, let's explore it further.
> > 
> > >* * * we believe the best way to do move forward would be to 
> > engage the 
> > >Open Source community (especially the attorneys and the 
> > people at the Open 
> > >Source Initiative) to:determine what such a label/logo might 
> > look like and 
> > >mean, and create or ensure that there is an OASIS RF license 
> > (for patent, 
> > >copyright, trademark IPR) mode for TC's that allows Open Source (tm) 
> > >implementation. We suggest this may be a very fruitful avenue for 
> > >discussion with the proponents of this letter, and invite 
> > the opinion of 
> > >other Chairs on this approach.
> > 
> >      Thanks again for a constructive suggestion.  I am 
> > passing this along 
> > for consideration. Best regards  Jamie
> > 
> > >Best,
> > >Gabe Wachob, Visa International, Co-Chair, XRI TC
> > >Drummond Reed, Cordance, Co-Chair, XRI & XDI TCs
> > >Geoffrey Strongin, AMD, Co-Chair, XDI TC
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >gwachob@visa.com
> > >Chief Systems Architect
> > >Technology Strategies and Standards
> > >Visa International
> > >Phone: +1.650.432.3696   Fax: +1.650.554.6817
> > 
> > ~   James Bryce Clark
> > ~   Director, Standards Development, OASIS
> > ~   jamie.clark@oasis-open.org
> > 
> > 
> >



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