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Subject: Re: [chairs] This Old House (OASIS) - Further Response to Peter Brown


On 4/28/2010 5:11 PM, robert_weir@us.ibm.com wrote:
> Oh, I think this is more like saying don't trust a house builder whose
> toolbox is not neatly organized.  Maybe, maybe not.  I think it is
> something that would need to be demonstrated, not assumed.
OK, how many examples would count for a demonstration?

Give me a reasonable number and I will post them to this list, naming 
names as it were.

Here's one to get us started (although this is true across all TCs that 
I am aware of):

Follow this link to get ODF email archives:


Now, follow this link to get ODF email archives:


Do you notice anything different about those two pages?

(Hint: You can search using MarkMail with the second one.)

Err, would having a uniform way to access email archives, hopefully 
MarkMail, be too much trouble?

That's one.

Well, here is another one:

Can you pick out which of these URLs you should send to a member of the 
public who is interested in the definition of WEEKNUM?



Same message.

Except that you have to login with an OASIS ID/password to see the 
second one.

(Also uniform across TCs so I will have to look for others on 
differences in TCs in particular.)

> I can imagine that creative chaos, in prescribed bounds, can be quite
> useful. The question is where do you draw a box around it and say,  "This
> is an OASIS deliverable and we all need to be doing this the same way",
> versus, "This is a TC working style detail"?  I think the OASIS promise is
> in transparency and openness, that the messy day-to-day work is visible,
> not that it is always pretty.
Not a question of closing off creative chaos or having a single working 

Questions like:

Where do you look for the latest draft of the work of a TC?

Should have a uniform answer. Yes?

> In any case, it is a trade-off, between the benefits of order and the
> administrative cost to monitor and enforce the order, or the technology
> costs to acquire and support tools that enforce the order for us.
Well, true, it is always a trade-off. I am arguing that we should err on 
making our work products predictably accessible to both members and 
visitors. How much we need to spend on that is an open question.

Hope you are having a great day!


> -Rob
> Patrick Durusau<patrick@durusau.net>  wrote on 04/28/2010 04:49:06 PM:
>> Peter Brown asked about other areas that need improvement at OASIS.
>> I would observe that a standards organization should follow some
>> standard practice in how information about its work is stored. It
>> does not reflect well on OASIS or the work of its TCs if every TC
>> has its own methods for recording information about its work. Such
>> as minutes for example. Minutes should have a uniform format.
>> Moreover, information about the work of a TC should have a uniform
>> location. Documents should be versioned in some uniform fashion.
>> OASIS resembles a "This Old House" where rooms (TCs) have been added
>> on to the main house in a haphazard fashion and each one is
>> different that most of the others.
>> That does not inspire a lot of confidence in the architect or in the
> rooms.
>> The argument will be made that TCs need the freedom to organize
>> their work any way they want.
>> *BS*
>> TCs need the freedom to develop the intellectual content to their
>> work. That is not the same thing as being creative with *where*
>> information about their work is stored. Or the keeping of records,
>> versions, etc.
>> We do want people to find the information and have confidence in our
>> work. Yes?
>> To do that, we need to decide to remodel our "This Old House" in
>> such a way that documents for every TC are in the same locations
>> (relative to the TC homepage), has the same version numbering, has
>> the same structure for minutes, etc..
>> Now is the time since discussions are underway about a new technical
>> infrastructure to support TC work.
>> Personally I would like to see that infrastructure support and
>> require a work flow and structure that provides uniform access to
>> the work of TCs. Save our creativity for the substance of our technical
> work.
>> It will take time to transition to a new way of documenting our work
>> but having worked in several TCs, I have confident in the
>> contributing members of our TCs that they are equal to the task.
>> Hope everyone is having a great day!
>> Patrick
>> PS: I will complain even if my ideas about organizing TC work are
>> accepted the first time the process goddess makes me change the way
>> I am doing something.  But, the purpose of standards is to
>> facilitate access, not make to me (or others) happy.
>> -- 
>> Patrick Durusau
>> patrick@durusau.net
>> Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34
>> Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps)
>> Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300
>> Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps)

Patrick Durusau
Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34
Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps)
Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300
Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps)

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