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Subject: Re: [chairs] Re: [members] Re: [chairs] Re: [tab] Invitation to comment on revisions to OASIS policy documents


My response on serialisation was with respect to a combined CSD/PR vote.

On 22/09/2020 14:57, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 04:18:40PM +0100, martin.chapman@oracle.com wrote:
Bret,

I though we covered this issue when we worked on this within the Board.

" So I would propose that a TC can release the CSDs whenever they want and as
frequently as they want."

How does a TC decide to "release" a CSD? It takes a vote. This can be a vote
during a meeting or by electronic ballot - we even added that electronic
ballots during meetings are allowed (e.g. across multiple sessions). The fact
that a TC chooses to have two week electronic ballots (minimum is 7 days in TC
process) is not a TC Process issue in my opinion. Personally, I think it is
good practice to iterate a baseline (CSD) via TC votes on the whole document
rather than wait until the end to decide its fate.

To address Vasileios comment:

"So I missed a step in the process. Two ballots. One for accepting a CSD and
another to decide if it will be released for public review. Then I concur with
Bret."

There is no requirement to serialise andÃÂ can all be done in a single vote/
ballot.

Martin.
Our TC votes on 3 changes to the spec.
Normally once vote finishes editors
make the change and push to github.
Assume 2 votes pass, 1 fails.
Editors should be able to push passed changes to github and
have that be a CSD.

As it is we can not include a vote to approve a CSD with one
of the votes for the changes if they run in parallel
since we don't know how will the full CSD look like
ahead of the time.
This looks like serialization to me.


On 18/09/2020 17:48, Bret Jordan wrote:

    I agree.ÃÂ Long-term I would love to see us get to an automated workflow
    with git and document publication.

    Thanks,
    Bret
    PGP Fingerprint:ÃÂ63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447 ÃÂF2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415 0050
    "Without cryptography vihv vivc ce xhrnrw, however, the only thing that can
    not be unscrambled is an egg."
   

    On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 8:49 AM Michael S. Tsirkin <mst@redhat.com> wrote:

        There is actually something I would like to add.ÃÂ If that takes place,
        really whenever something is comitted in the TC SVN/git, it should be
        possible to regard that as a draft deliverable for IPR purposes (e.g.
        the limited patent covenant). A step of generating a number for a CSD
        changes nothing IMHO.


        On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:17:28AM -0400, Chet Ensign wrote:
        > Bret, thanks again. I have started a comment log to collect all
        feedback and
        > loaded your comment there so that the Board can discuss it.ÃÂ
        >
        > One quick note on the process:ÃÂ even if votes on CSDs are eliminated,
        TCs will
        > still have to vote to approve releasing CSDs for public review. It
        will not be
        > just the CS level.
        >
        > Again, thanks for the feedback.ÃÂ
        >
        > /chet
        >
        > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 11:43 AM Bret Jordan <
        bret.jordan@broadcom.com> wrote:
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂChet,
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂGiven that the proposal removes the concept of a "working draft",
        we really
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂshould remove the requirement to have a ballot on a CSD. Since
        the CSDs are
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂreally just internal TC documents and not for external
        consumption, we
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂshould get rid of this extra layer of un-neededÃÂbusywork process.
        Larger
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂTCs that are very active tend to suffer from Ballot fatigue from
        ballots
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂthat are really not even necessary.ÃÂ
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂSo I would propose that a TC can release the CSDs whenever they
        want and as
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂfrequently as they want. Then the ballot to approve it is done at
        the CS
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂlevel. If you look at a TC that produces say 6 CSDs for a single
        CS and
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂgiven that ballots need to be open really for 2 weeks, then for a
        standard
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂrelease there is about 12 weeks or 3 months of dead time in a TC
        due to
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂballots. This is just a waste.ÃÂ
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂThanks,
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂBret
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂPGP Fingerprint:ÃÂ63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447 ÃÂF2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415
        0050
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ"Without cryptography vihv vivc ce xhrnrw, however, the only
        thing that can
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂnot be unscrambled is an egg."
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂOn Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 3:57 PM Chet Ensign <
        chet.ensign@oasis-open.org>
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂwrote:
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂDear OASIS members,
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂOver the past two and a half years, the OASIS Board has
        considered
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂchanges to our project policy documents based on feedback
        from you, the
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂmembers, the people who actively do the work.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂAt its meeting on July 22, 2020, the Board approved a set
        consolidated
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂchanges to the Committee Operations Process, the TC Process,
        the
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂDefined Terms, and the Naming Directives. Because these
        changes include
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂsome significant changes to current practice, the Board would
        like to
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂhear your comments.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂThis email starts a 30-day member comment period. When the
        review is
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂcompleted, our Board will review any comments and then
        propose a final
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂset of approved documents as well as determining their
        effective date.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂAs a member-centric and member-run organization, your
        opinions matter.
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂThe attached ZIP file contains redlined copies of each policy
        document.
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂA brief summary of the changes is included below. Please take
        some time
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂto review the documents and share your thoughts with us. You
        can share
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂyour comments by sending them to our archived discussion list
        at
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂoasis-member-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org or, if you prefer,
        share them
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂdirectly with me or with any OASIS board member or staff.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂThank you in advance for your time & feedback!
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ---
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂSummary of changes to Committee Operations Process, TC
        Process, Defined
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂTerms and Naming Directives.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂThe major changes:
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ* We changed pronouns to be gender-neutral throughout.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ* We simplified the work product workflow. (A separate
        communication
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂwill be forthcoming describing these changes.)
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂGoing forward, we have eliminated the confusing and
        duplicative
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂCommittee Specification Public Review Drafts and the
        Candidate OASIS
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂStandards. Your group will now produce Committee
        Specification Drafts.
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂPublic reviews will be done on the CSDs and, after you have
        approved
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂCommittee or Project Specifications, the CS or PS will be put
        forward
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂfor the 60-day public review preceding the Call for Consent
        as OASIS
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂStandard. We hope this will address long-standing confusion
        over the
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂconflicting numbering schemes as well as eliminate
        unnecessary
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂduplication of publications.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂA substantial number of the changes you'll see are simply
        eliminations
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂof references to the eliminated artifacts.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ* We modified the rules on handling content post-approval to
        allow TC
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂAdministration to work with the editors to correct problems
        discovered
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂduring publishing process. We agree that it is to everyone's
        advantage
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂto put forward the highest quality work from our projects. We
        hope you
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂwill take advantage of this to fix those niggling glitches
        that we come
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂacross during preparation of your work.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ* We added a new section 1.10 to the TC Process titled "TC
        Vitality."
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂTCs will now be asked to review and confirm (or modify) their
        charter
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂonce every four years.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ* We added a requirement to Committee Process section 1.4
        Chairs that
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂevery two years, a committee must reappoint its chairs.
        Sitting chairs
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂare allowed to stand but must be reconfirmed by committee
        vote.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂThe minor changes:
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ* We clarified the requirement that meeting minutes must be
        posted to
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂthe TC's general email list. We hope this will help eliminate
        the
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂhiccups when TC Admin has to postpone working on a support
        request
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂuntil the minutes are sent to the mail list.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ* We removed a discrepancy between the definitions of
        Material and
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂNon-Material changes.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ* We clarified an ambiguity about how a Member gains voting
        rights
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂduring a 60 day period if less than 2 meetings are held.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ* We shortened and simplified the Leave of Absence policy.
        Now, a first
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂLoA request is considered automatically approved.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ* We clarified that changing employers does not change a
        member's
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂvoting rights or other status within a committee.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ* We clarified that a TC can use the electronic ballot tool
        to record
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂvotes during a TC meeting.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ* We changed references from normative / non-normative to
        normative and
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂinformative to be more in line with other SDO practice.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂAgain, thank you for your time & feedback.
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ--
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ/chetÃÂ
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ----------------
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂChet Ensign
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂChief Technical Community Steward
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂOASIS: Advancing open source & open standards for the
        information
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂsociety
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂhttps://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.oasis-open.org__;!!GqivPVa7Brio!JHZBnxXMIJKI0Wav4H3ZznCnMc_I6YEpIZxRhDhnaIrw6tx3yKq9-ujeEOQ_2uFfhkc$ 
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂMobile: +1 201-341-1393ÃÂ
        >
        >ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ
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        > /chetÃÂ
        > ----------------
        > Chet Ensign
        > Chief Technical Community Steward
        > OASIS: Advancing open source & open standards for the information
        society
        > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.oasis-open.org__;!!GqivPVa7Brio!JHZBnxXMIJKI0Wav4H3ZznCnMc_I6YEpIZxRhDhnaIrw6tx3yKq9-ujeEOQ_2uFfhkc$ 
        >
        > Mobile: +1 201-341-1393ÃÂ



    


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