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Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [cti] [EXT] [cti] Location as a Top-Level SDO


That is not the primary purpose of a location SDO in my mind. The primary purpose of a location SDO is the same reason we make most all other SDOs - so that we can correlate and track events over time against these objects to inform the analysis of the CTI.

If locations are all embedded as properties inside SDOs, it is going to make it much more difficult for a analyst to be able to notice that these 10 otherwise-unrelated things that recently occurred are all originating from the same location, because it will become very difficult to track those kinds of statistics (and many software providers simply won't do it at all, because the spec is not encouraging it).


-
Jason Keirstead
STSM, Product Architect, Security Intelligence, IBM Security Systems
www.ibm.com/security

Without data, all you are is just another person with an opinion - Unknown




From:        Bret Jordan <Bret_Jordan@symantec.com>
To:        "Wunder, John A." <jwunder@mitre.org>, Patrick Maroney <pmaroney@wapacklabs.com>
Cc:        "Jason Mr. Keirstead" <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com>, "John-Mark Mr. Gurney" <jmg@newcontext.com>, "cti@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti@lists.oasis-open.org>, "Back, Greg" <gback@mitre.org>, "Nathan.Reller@jhuapl.edu" <Nathan.Reller@jhuapl.edu>
Date:        06/12/2017 06:00 PM
Subject:        Re: [EXT] Re: [cti] [EXT] [cti] Location as a Top-Level SDO




The only use-case I have heard for a location SDO is the ability to allow a third party to say they think this threat actor for example is also in this other location.   To allow for this use case, you would need either have the location be an SDO or you would need to use a note or opinion object.

I would ask that if location is an SDO, then other properties probably should also be made SDOs.

Bret



From: Wunder, John A. <jwunder@mitre.org>
Sent:
Monday, June 12, 2017 2:12:29 PM
To:
Patrick Maroney; Bret Jordan
Cc:
Jason Mr. Keirstead; John-Mark Mr. Gurney; cti@lists.oasis-open.org; Back, Greg; Nathan.Reller@jhuapl.edu
Subject:
[EXT] Re: [cti] [EXT] [cti] Location as a Top-Level SDO

 
Yeah +1 to Pat…we’re a CTI org, let’s not maintain a database of geolocations.
 
More generally I also agree w/ Allan that this doesn’t really impact the SDO question. Either you:
  
It would be nice to enumerate these types of scenarios and see how we can deal with each of them in each approach. I talked to Allan and I think he has the beginnings of that document started, I’ll get with him to push it to Google docs so we can all look over it.
 
John
 
From: <cti@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of Patrick Maroney <pmaroney@wapacklabs.com>
Date:
Monday, June 12, 2017 at 3:16 PM
To:
"Bret Jordan (CS)" <Bret_Jordan@symantec.com>
Cc:
"Jason Mr. Keirstead" <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com>, "John-Mark Mr. Gurney" <jmg@newcontext.com>, "cti@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti@lists.oasis-open.org>, Greg Back <gback@mitre.org>, "Nathan.Reller@jhuapl.edu" <Nathan.Reller@jhuapl.edu>
Subject:
Re: [cti] [EXT] [cti] Location as a Top-Level SDO

 
My .02:  If we're building, publishing, maintaining our own Geo-Location Data, we're doing something wrong.  This is one wheel we do not need to re-invent...again just my .02.
 
Patrick Maroney
Principal Engineer - Data Science & Analytics
Wapack Labs LLC
(609)841-5104
pmaroney@wapacklabs.com
 
Public Key: http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7C810C9769BD29AF
 
On Jun 11, 2017, at 11:58 PM, Bret Jordan <Bret_Jordan@symantec.com> wrote:
 
So if we were going to do this, we would probably need to build a library of locations by country and regions and publish them as a Committee Note and hope people just use the them for locations at the granularity of a country or group of countries.
 
Bret


From: cti@lists.oasis-open.org<cti@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of Jason Keirstead <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com>
Sent:
Sunday, June 11, 2017 7:35:18 PM
To:
jmg@newcontext.com
Cc:
Bret Jordan; cti@lists.oasis-open.org; gback@mitre.org; Nathan.Reller@jhuapl.edu
Subject:
Re: [cti] Re: [EXT] [cti] Location as a Top-Level SDO

 
You are assuming that we don't create a repository of "standard" location SDOs for things like continent and country names - IE the things that people would want to share in the first place. Which, I don't see why we would not do this, seeing how we're doing it for things like CAPEC.
 
-
Jason Keirstead
STSM, Product Architect, Security Intelligence, IBM Security Systems

www.ibm.com/security

Without data, all you are is just another person with an opinion - Unknown

 
 
----- Original message -----
From: John-Mark Gurney <
jmg@newcontext.com>
Sent by: <
cti@lists.oasis-open.org>
To: "Back, Greg" <
gback@mitre.org>
Cc: Bret Jordan <
Bret_Jordan@symantec.com>, "Reller, Nathan S." <Nathan.Reller@jhuapl.edu>, "cti@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject: Re: [cti] Re: [EXT] [cti] Location as a Top-Level SDO
Date: Fri, Jun 9, 2017 8:36 PM

Back, Greg wrote this message on Fri, Jun 09, 2017 at 20:18 +0000:
> If Location is an SDO, does that make it possible to “move” another object by versioning the Location object? That seems like a bad idea. Especially if you effectively “move” other, unrelated objects that also refer to the same Location. Even if we did make Location a TLO, we would have to mandate that people update the “_ref” fields to move an SDO, not the Location itself.
>
> (I haven’t made up my mind on whether I like the Location SDO in general, just pointing out one consideration).

Interesting point.  Which effectively means that if you create a
relationship to a location, that location should be one you own, not
one that was created by someone else (unless you can trust the creator
not to do what you just described)...

This means that by definition, there will be many Location SDO's for
the same location to prevent this from happeneing...

--
John-Mark

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