Sarah – I don’t believe ‘scoping’ back to the single use case for IR is necessary provided we make don’t make changes that preclude those other use cases.
My suggestion to Andras and the list was that the use cases he was pointing out could be supported by the current proposal (somewhat) and I would suggest we continue to allow other use cases leveraging the event+relationships to other objects
including event->report; event->observed-data; event->intel-note……etc
Allan
From: Sarah Kelley <Sarah.Kelley@cisecurity.org>
Date: Friday, August 25, 2017 at 4:59 AM
To: Allan Thomson <athomson@lookingglasscyber.com>, Andras Iklody <andras.iklody@circl.lu>, "cti@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject: Re: [cti] Re: [EXT] Re: [cti] Summary of the working call
All,
Just to clarify my original email.
The conversation on the working call was to scope down what we were currently working on for the particular event object we
already had a proposal for in the working documents. This object was designed with the IR type of object in mind, so for our current understanding, and to make some forward progress on this object, we were suggesting to scope back the use cases for
that particular SDO to what it made sense for. We were NOT in any way suggesting that other use cases weren’t valid or that we wouldn’t fulfil them. In fact, there have been several discussions recently about how exactly how we can meet the needs of
the use cases you’ve suggested. If this particular SDO isn’t going to work, we are currently in the process of creating alternatives that could fulfil these use case.
I hope this helps clarify what the intentions were in my original email regarding our discussions.
Sarah Kelley
Senior Cyber Threat Analyst
Multi-State Information Sharing and Analysis Center (MS-ISAC)
31 Tech Valley Drive
East Greenbush, NY 12061
518-266-3493
24x7 Security Operations Center
SOC@cisecurity.org - 1-866-787-4722
From: "cti@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of Allan Thomson <athomson@lookingglasscyber.com>
Date: Friday, August 25, 2017 at 6:26 AM
To: Andras Iklody <andras.iklody@circl.lu>, "cti@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject: Re: [cti] Re: [EXT] Re: [cti] Summary of the working call
Bret/Andras – I wasn’t able to attend the working call but I would like to point out that the definition of the Event object in the “current” proposal has a relationship to Observed-Data object(s) as well as other new STIX 2.1 objects Intel-Note.
Therefore an event can describe a generic event that points to OSINT data (e.g. observed-data), CERT notification (e.g. intel-note), black-list (could be represented as a list of IPs as Observed-Data object).
Andras is asking for reasonable (we agree with them) use cases that the Event object should support.
So I would suggest that the current proposal on the table is closer to what is needed to support the MISP event use cases that is being suggested.
Certainly we agree that Event should *not* just be about an investigation and *should* represent various event use cases including the ones that Andras has suggested.
Allan Thomson
CTO
+1-408-331-6646
LookingGlass Cyber Solutions <http://www.lookingglasscyber.com/>
On 8/25/17, 12:41 AM, "cti@lists.oasis-open.org on behalf of Andras Iklody" <cti@lists.oasis-open.org on behalf of andras.iklody@circl.lu> wrote:
Hello Bret,
We've just had a look at the event object
(https://docs.google.com/document/d/15qD9KBQcVcY4FlG9n_VGhqacaeiLlNcQ7zVEjc8I3b4/edit#
- section 2.6 / 2.1.x???) and it is pretty far from our idea of a
generic event, as it basically describes an incident/investigation/case
instead of a generic event (which could be a collection of OSINT data
even, CERT notifications, or even a shared black list). Most of its
attributes don't align with what we're after
(so basically we'd have to leave them unset) and it lacks some
attributes that are blockers for us.
Our main goal with threat intel sharing is to give analysts a tool that
allows them to exchange information that they find could be useful for
their partners, based on a variety of sources (an actual incident, a
collection of OSINT data, financial fraud details, the results of the
analysis of a reverse engineer, notifications shared by law enforcement
etc).
The event proposal that you suggested deals more with a collection of
facts after an incident/investigation/case, which has different
objectives and assumptions. It is great for a ticketing system used
internally for example, but less so for threat intel sharing. I
personally don't see how this is more relevant than what we're after
when we consider that STIX is a standard built to exchange threat
information, but we can't all have our ponies, I realise that.
However, this makes the proposed construct unusable for our use-case.
I hope this has managed to clear up some of the confusion and we can
come to an agreement on how to proceed (hopefully using the proposed
generic-event structure).
Best regards,
Andras
On 23. aug. 2017 18:39, Bret Jordan wrote:
> Alexandre,
>
>
> If we added a "supporting_data" property to Event that contained a list
> of IDs to other STIX objects, would that enable your use-case?
>
>
> Bret
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* cti@lists.oasis-open.org <cti@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of
> Alexandre Dulaunoy <Alexandre.Dulaunoy@circl.lu>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 23, 2017 2:42:46 AM
> *To:* cti@lists.oasis-open.org
> *Subject:* [EXT] Re: [cti] Summary of the working call
>
> On 22/08/17 22:12, Sarah Kelley wrote:
>> On today’s working call, we discussed the event object. We didn’t have someone taking full notes, but I’ll try to summarize what was discussed below.
>>
>>
>> 1. The event object should be scoped down to just an IR type of event/incident. This would need to be clarified in the text, but that would then scope out some of our other use cases such as:
>> * An ‘alert’ coming into your system
>> * An ‘event’ such as a threat actor registering a domain
>> * The MISP version of ‘event’
>
> As our past proposals (event and updated report) were rejected and
> seeing how despite expectations the new event SDO won't accommodate the
> requirements of many CERTs and considering that we need to
> move on regarding this, we propose a new SDO called generic event to be
> able to map MISP events to STIX.
>
>
https://clicktime.symantec.com/a/1/KXXOt30L0Phy4XSBJfMef58Wt7mbKP8hq6iPJVbggCA=?d=aZFWp64AB6xw0IMyCZXL0Penlb_6iU6OgveRz1MnP5rZ9wxB3EfnQTTfyleQA_85xnxQ4G0tW-3mzxOSKk1ZRAeSkGz5Uk_0aPQYycvNcyEd8ji_tyMaKiVRV9LZPX9QWMpByAtKN1160Dz8pzikmWvm0SFVLHVA309anASuRu6zZIWfoBIdLmRQw-WVQy010_LhdsXjYEM-UscjJdtGhpFaPSlyn8sajyVZvtRf2DKg9jyYepCu2Rt7DmyHYx5Z5jlm5eo60yXUU7QuYoszYy6gKXOlHo9JUCI9Euvaux0dldytYQNnqpjF1iIAR6BljwZgq0OTmjNjS72rdbMO-Ki2Sdu1EX1s_yvIWbUoNls35fV1yGdy7YLa8z1z7nM_1VZZ8C-43itV5JB6WqnJUQBohXsItCeM8aFDSIxBoJTjjTC8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.misp-project.org%2Fgeneric-event-proposal-STIX-2.1.pdf
>
> Thank you very much
>
> --
> Alexandre Dulaunoy
> CIRCL - Computer Incident Response Center Luxembourg
> 41, avenue de la gare L-1611 Luxembourg
> info@circl.lu - www.circl.lu <http://www.circl.lu> - (+352) 247 88444
>
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