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Subject: RE: [dita-adoption] DITA 1.2 compliant CMS
Hello JoAnn and Bryan, I am relatively new in this DITA compliant CMS definition, but I do agree with you completely. All my experiences with DITA compliant CCMs are all like what JoAnn had said in the mail. I do evaluate and recommend DITA compliant CMSs as being CCCMs and including all these. After these are all cleared then we can look at rendering engine and editors. These two are depend on what customers required, and it is possible to select few within one deployment. (It is not that I do recommend but it's possible) Tetsuya -----Original Message----- From: bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com [mailto:bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com] Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 5:11 AM To: joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com; dita-adoption@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: RE: [dita-adoption] DITA 1.2 compliant CMS JoAnn, I couldn't agree more. The architecture you describe is completely consistent with my view as an XML Information Architect. In my view a very useful model exists when it is the content that is the source of truth, and the content management system is the central access point to that source. I view the editor to be an important, but ancillary, or subordinate part of the content workflow. I see it on a par with the other important, but ancillary parts of the workflow, like instantiation of deliverables (like help systems, web content, printed documents or PDFs), translation managements systems, grammar enforcement modules, etc. I recognize that very successful systems have been made to work in the past where a strong XML editor can access an object database or even a file system. I've managed many over the years (SGML, and XML). But I think that kind of architecture becomes more and more difficult to sustain when we switch from document centric content to topic-based authoring. I would expect my DITA compliant CMS to do all of the things you've described. To put a point on it, I would expect my CMS to manage my tens, hundreds, or thousands of topics, along with links, usages, language matrixes, and approval states, . . ., all of the things that make up my universe of content. - Bryan ________________________________________ From: Joann Hackos [joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com] Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 12:11 PM To: Paul Grosso; DITA Adoption TC; Gershon Joseph Cc: Nitchie, Chris Subject: Re: [dita-adoption] DITA 1.2 compliant CMS Actually, we expect the CMS to handle all manner of DITA functions without needing an editor. In fact, we want to be able to validate links, initiate publishing, initiate translation, check "where used", manage a workflow, and more solely within the CMS. In several CCMSs, we can set up all the conditional publishing options, with more options than we have to handle them than in the Open Toolkit, and we can execute conditional publishing, all without reference to the authoring tool. We don't want to require that someone use an authoring tool to handle all processes, with or without the OT. I want visibility into the XML objects through the CMS. I want to be able to affect the content without an editor. I can write scripts that change a tagging error throughout a portion of the database. I can open a single element in a DITA topic and edit it without opening the entire topic. Perhaps part of the problem is that using an XML aware CMS is quite different from using something like Documentum, which is architected to handle files as BLOBS rather than XML objects. A component CCMS does a great deal more than just store. It's an active aid to good information management in XML and in DITA. JoAnn On 9/9/10 4:29 PM, "Paul Grosso" <pgrosso@ptc.com> wrote: > I'm not so much asking what DITA compliance means (though > that's a tricky enough question), I'm asking what it means > for a CMS to be DITA compliant. > > In short, what does a CMS do--above and beyond what the > authoring/composition tool that is used to work with the > content stored in the CMS does--that could be DITA aware? > > I fail to understand what it would mean for a CMS to > support keyref. I do not pretend to understand CMS > systems very well, so I may be off base here (and I'd > be happy to be corrected), but I didn't think it was up to > data bases to resolve references that the editor/composition > system is going to resolve. > > I am really over my head here--CMS systems are not at all > in my areas of expertise, so perhaps there are many people > out there who will know what it means (or should mean) for > a CMS to be compliant to DITA 1.2, but perhaps there are > also many like me who don't know, so it would only make > sense if we could explain what it might mean. > > Do we have any members of this TC who are--or who have > clients who are--asking for certain DITA-aware features > from a CMS that go beyond what the editor/composition > system handles for you, and if so, what features are they? > > paul > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joann Hackos [mailto:joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com] >> Sent: Thursday, 2010 September 09 17:01 >> To: Grosso, Paul; DITA Adoption TC >> Cc: Nitchie, Chris >> Subject: Re: [dita-adoption] DITA 1.2 compliant CMS >> >> In all of my recent discussions with CMS vendors, I've asked about >> support >> for DITA 1.2. The answer I've most frequently received is "We're >> studying >> the spec and deciding what we can and will implement." We have been >> told >> that a particular CMS, for example, will not have support for keyref > in >> the >> immediate future. Or, that there will not be support for all or > several >> of >> the 1.2 features. Quite clearly, there is work that CMS vendors must > do >> to >> conform to the new 1.2 features that is not simple or obvious. >> >> We continue to find CMS vendors who claim to be DITA compliant but who >> do >> not support even the most basic functionality. All they do, > apparently, >> is >> import and export DITA files. Nothing happens between the ears. Yet, >> they >> are selling their products as DITA ready. >> >> So what does DITA compliant then mean? We are, of course, working on >> this >> issue in the TC. Companies ask us how they can write their RFPs so >> ensure >> that they're not being fooled about DITA support in the CMS. >> >> Is that what we intend by compliance? I think compliance is a much > more >> legalistic term but we do mean that something must be in place to >> support >> DITA satisfactorily. >> >> JoAnn >> >> >> On 9/9/10 9:33 AM, "Paul Grosso" <pgrosso@ptc.com> wrote: >> >>> Reading our DITA 1.2 Status article at >>> http://www.oasis- >> open.org/committees/download.php/38956/DITA12SpecStatus >>> Update.pdf >>> someone has seen the comment in the second para of the >>> "DITA 1.2 Readiness for Use" section that says that >>> certain CMS vendors have announced upcoming DITA 1.2 >>> support and the comment near the bottom of the article >>> urging CMS vendors to move quickly to support DITA 1.2 >>> and raised the question of what it means for a CMS to be >>> DITA compliant (much less support DITA 1.2 in particular). >>> >>> I have to admit I didn't think much about these statements >>> when I reviewed this article. I don't think about CMS's >>> much at all. They are just data bases to me, and the >>> ability to work with DITA in particular or XML in general >>> rarely has anything to do with the data base, it has to >>> do with the application that knows how to put things into >>> the data base and take it out of the data base. In our >>> case, that's the Arbortext Editor and CMS adapter front end. >>> >>> In fact, on our "Fact Sheet" wiki page at >>> http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita-adoption/factSheet >>> in the "Support for management of topics within a repository" >>> section I long ago questioned the CMS section there, but we >>> have never discussed my issues with that page. >>> >>> So I'm back to asking what it might mean for a CMS >>> to be DITA 1.2 compliant. >>> >>> paul >>> >>> >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >>> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >>> https://www.oasis- >> open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
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