RE: [dita-translation] Changes to documentation of xml:lang and translate attributes

["Gershon L Joseph" <gershon@tech-tav.com>]

If we hard-code it in the DTD, we'll have a hard time keeping the set of
allowable values up-to-date. Also, I've yet to find an accurate fully
up-to-date list of values on the Web that's not draft or incomplete. I think
it should be up to the implementation to ensure the value entered is valid,
or to offer the user a list of options customized to the user's needs. I
suspect offering a list of about 100 values will confuse the user almost as
much as leaving them to research it themselves.

I don't mind adding a link in the spec documentation to an accurate list
that's always going to be kept updated. I have not found such a list (I'm
sure it exists, but I could find anything valuable via Google).

What do others think?


Best Regards,
Gershon

-----Original Message-----
From: Farwell, Kevin [mailto:Kevin.Farwell@lionbridge.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 6:58 PM
To: gershon@tech-tav.com; Felix Sasaki; Robert D Anderson
Cc: bhertz@sdl.com; Bryan Schnabel; Charles Pau; Lieske, Christian; Dave A
Schell; dita-translation@lists.oasis-open.org; dpooley@sdl.com; Richard
Ishida; Jennifer Linton; mambrose@sdl.com; patrickk@scriptware.nl;
pcarey@lexmark.com; Reynolds, Peter; rfletcher@sdl.com; Munshi, Sukumar;
tony.jewtushenko@productinnovator.com; Yves Savourel
Subject: RE: [dita-translation] Changes to documentation of xml:lang and
translate attributes

Hi,

I have a question about the values of the xml:lang attribute. With phrases
like "The allowed xml:lang values..." from the DITA reference and "This
attribute must be set to a language identifier, as defined..."
from the email below, I don't understand why the values aren't set in the
DTD and the users aren't given a list to pick from instead of a set of rules
to follow. As an NMTOKEN, the value of the xml:lang attribute can be
anything the user desires as still be valid. If something must be enforced,
why leave it to users to enforce it? Why doesn't the content model enforce
it?

Confusion surrounding the locale codes is fairly easy to understand. The
textual description runs country-language, but the symbol runs
language-country. If a user is trying to remember the symbol for UK English,
gb-en is as likely as en-gb, and even if they remember the country comes
first, why wouldn't UK English be en-uk? Latvian is lv-lv, so why isn't
Japanese ja-ja or jp-jp? If what's "allowed" "must" be in the attribute
value, why leave it to chance or leave it up to users doing research (which,
in my opinion, are the same thing)? 

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Gershon L Joseph [mailto:gershon@tech-tav.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 8:38 AM
To: 'Felix Sasaki'; 'Robert D Anderson'
Cc: bhertz@sdl.com; 'Bryan Schnabel'; 'Charles Pau'; 'Lieske, Christian';
'Dave A Schell'; dita-translation@lists.oasis-open.org;
dpooley@sdl.com; 'Richard Ishida'; 'Jennifer Linton'; mambrose@sdl.com;
patrickk@scriptware.nl; pcarey@lexmark.com; Reynolds, Peter;
rfletcher@sdl.com; Munshi, Sukumar; tony.jewtushenko@productinnovator.com;
'Yves Savourel'
Subject: RE: [dita-translation] Changes to documentation of xml:lang and
translate attributes

Thank you all for your input. I'm replying to all comments in a single email
to make it easier to follow this thread and where we're going...

Here are new proposals for the two attributes based on all the feedback I've
received to-date, as well as our discussions during Monday's SC meeting.

My previous proposal kept the original descriptions in the current spec as
much as possible, and I'm glad I received the reactions I did (e.g.
English being the default language -- I felt uneasy about that one too).
I took the default values from the spec, which I now see confused everyone;
I've changed them to reflect their usage.

PROPOSAL FOR translate ATTRIBUTE:

Name: translate

Description: Indicates whether the content of the element should be
translated or not. The translate attribute setting applies to the element on
which it is set, and is inherited by all child elements that do not specify
the translate attribute. The translate attribute does not indicate whether
attribute values of the element and its children should be translated;
attribute values should never be translated. If this attribute is not
specified on the document element, then processors must assume
translate="yes".

Data Type: yes | no

Default Value: Not set

Required: #IMPLIED


PROPOSAL FOR xml:lang ATTRIBUTE:

Name: xml:lang

Description: Specifies the language and locale of the element content.
The intent declared with xml:lang is considered to apply to all attributes
and content of the element where it is specified, unless overridden with an
instance of xml:lang on another element within that content. When no
xml:lang value is supplied, the processor should assume a default value.
This attribute must be set to a language identifier, as defined by IETF RFC
3066 (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3066.txt) or successor.

Data Type: NMTOKEN

Default Value: Not set

Required: #IMPLIED