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Subject: FW: Translation Subcommittee Agenda -- 9 July 2007


 

 

JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD
President
Comtech Services, Inc.
710 Kipling Street, Suite 400
Denver, CO 80215
303-232-7586
joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com
joannhackos Skype

www.comtech-serv.com


From: Bruce Esrig [mailto:esrig-ia@esrig.com]
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 5:29 AM
To: JoAnn Hackos; dita-translation@lists.oasis-open.org; mambrose@sdl.com; bhertz@sdl.com; Bryan Schnabel; charles_pau@us.ibm.com; christian.lieske@sap.com; dpooley@sdl.com; dschell@us.ibm.com; fsasaki@w3.org; rfletcher@sdl.com; Howard.Schwartz; ishida@w3.org; tony.jewtushenko@productinnovator.com; KARA@CA.IBM.COM; ysavourel@translate.com
Subject: Re: Translation Subcommittee Agenda -- 9 July 2007

 

In case I cannot attend today, I'd like to offer a few comments on a recent version of the proposal, starting with contrary comments.

1. The first example Anti-lock braking system (ABS) does not separate the expanded and short form. The second example (WMD) does separate the expanded and short form. Separating them is more in line the XML principle: give each meaningful unit its own markup.

2. The example from Polish is well-explained. There is another example that could be added, which is that corporate style guides may require a particular order. Note that if the style guide were to change, or if information were exchanged among companies with differing style guides, it would be more convenient to have the expanded and short forms separate.

3. Although the text acknowledges the special context "start of sentence", more work needs to be done to clarify what this context is and how it can be recognized.

3a(1). Is it an obligation of the user to use a special form of the <acronym> element at the start of a sentence? If so, what form should be used?

3a(2). Or is there some other markup that would indicate this context, so that processing could present the short form even upon the first occurrence?

3b(1). In case the first occurrence is at the beginning of a sentence, is the right behavior to put the short form first ***followed by the expanded form*** regardless of what the style guide specifies?

3b(2). Is a global setting of some sort (perhaps in a configuration file) required in order to specify the order preferred by the style guide? Perhaps a default would be required per language, followed by an override specified in the configuration file used when the processing system is set up. The DITA TC has in the past specified language features and avoided specifying implementation details for processing, but the TC could provide remarks here stating what solutions vendors might wish to consider. The proposal should be explicit about these considerations since they are bound to come up at multiple levels of review.

4.. The key difference between the use case section and the preceding sections seems to be that the use case section talks in terms of output. Would it be possible to talk about each use case in terms of output first, and supporting markup second? In this way the desired output could be agreed upon, and then the means to achieve it could be discussed.

5. Basing the <acronym> element on the <data> element seems very promising.

Best wishes,

Bruce Esrig

At 08:18 AM 7/8/2007, JoAnn Hackos wrote:

Hello All,
If any of you know how to add content to the new translation wiki (please add Andrzej's proposal and all the comments received). Thank you. JoAnn

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1)  Roll Call
 
2)  Accept Minutes from 18 June 2007 . attached
 
3)  Review open action items
 
    3.1 ACTION: Gershon to investigate whether he can use a client's samples.
        Gershon will assemble all the examples into the template for the TC
 
        CONTINUED. Awaiting legal OK; Gershon is selecting items for use in the Best Practice.
 
    3.2 ACTION: Gershon and Don will present the approved best practices on
        indexing, conrefs, Translation Memory, and multilanguage as committee drafts for approval by    
        the     DITA Technical Committee.
 
        CONTINUED. Gershon to complete marking up in DITA XML and complete OASIS
        customization and deliver to TC for review
 
        Don asked Gershon to make new Wiki page with links to the latest drafts
        of the Translation SC BPs for review.
 
    3.5 ACTION: Rodolfo will continue to work on the Best Practice for XLIFF
        CONTINUED.
 
 
    3.6 ACTION: JoAnn will try writing the sort order addition to the indexing
        Best Practice for review.
        CONTINUED.
 
    3.7 ACTION: JoAnn will contact Richard Ischida to get clarification on the need for a pronunciation    
            element
            or attribute for the acronym proposal.
 
        IN PROGRESS -- note sent to Richard. JoAnn raised the issue at the OASIS Symposium
        with  the Accessibilty working group headed by Peter Brunet from IBM. They are working on        
        accessibility for ODF. Suggested that
        DITA be included in the accessibility discussions. No response as yet.
 
4)  Returning business:
 
    4.1 Vote on the final version of Andrzej and Rodolfo's  acronym proposal. see attached zip file.
 
    4.2 Discussion of the 4.2 Discuss Rodolfo's  proposed additions to the Indexing best practice.
        
 
5)  New business:
   
    5.1 New Translation WIKI page (Question: how to attach documents)
 
http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/TranslationSubcommittee
 
    5.1 Comment on the W3C working draft.
 

A W3C working draft document entitled "Best Practices for XML Internationalization" was published last week.

It includes a section on DITA at

http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-xml-i18n-bp-20070628/#dita
Comment from Deborah Pickett (Moldflow)
 
Curious.  It gives some advice on how to handle Ruby, which DITA probably needs a domain for sooner or later.

There are a few errors/omissions with respect to their coverage of DITA:

- The XPath selectors are all of the form "//term" rather than "//*[contains(@class, ' topic/term ')]".  Selectors appear to be able to use all XPath 1.0 patterns, so they should Do The DITA Thing with element names and classes.

- There's no mention of incorporating the domain into DITA maps, which can have translatable text.

- It doesn't look like much attention has been given to is-a relationships and overrides (i.e., <step> is-a <li>).  But, looking at the spec for ITS, the override logic for <its:rules> isn't sophisticated enough to cope with mixing-in of DITA domain specializations anyway.  Darn.


 

JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD
President
Comtech Services, Inc.
710 Kipling Street, Suite 400
Denver CO 80215
303-232-7586
joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 
 



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