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Subject: Re: [dita-translation] Re: Introduction of <surface-form> to the acronymproposal
Hi Andrzej,
Thanks for the updated link.
I don't agree with Deborah's suggestion or to the change on the WIKI. As
my recollection goes, this change does not reflect the most recent
committee discussions.
See this page.... http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/AcronymRequirements
In it we have documented a proposal to enlarge this to cover "term
variants".
I have added several responses to her comment, with "kw"
2. Even though this proposal deliberately avoids talking about
abbreviations (that aren't acronyms), we should assume that users
aren't going to make the distinction, and that they will use this
feature for their abbreviations too.
kw - I think that would be a wrong assumption, and if they did use this
feature for other types of abbreviations,
we would have a problem because we need to use an acronym element only for
acronyms... we need to be able
to separate acronyms from other types of abbreviations due to different
downstream processes. If we combine
different types of terms in the <acronym> element this would not be using
the element properly.
The "scope" section of the
proposal should state that the proposal is not intended to cover
non-acronym abbreviations, and why.
kw - this was not agreed by the committee. We are still discussing this.
Some of the changes on the page are also not accurate in my opinion. Such
as the following:
Non-acronym abbreviations such as apocope, clipping, elision, syncope,
syllabic abbreviation, and portmanteau are sufficiently different in nature
from acronyms to warrant specific handling.
In fact, other types of abbreviations have very similar requirements to
acronyms in terms of document handling... they are not sufficiently
different.
By the way, this list of abbreviation types doesn't reflect the standard
types we usually talk about in glossaries/terminology... but I can
elaborate on that later. I sent out a PPT presentation to the group a while
ago about this. Here is a copy fyi.
(See attached file: abbreviations.ppt)
Kara Warburton
IBM LanguageWare & Terminology
Team Lead, Language & Data Integration
905-413-2170
IBM terminology: http://w3.ibm.com/standards/terminology
LanguageWare: http://languageware.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/
My blog: http://blogs.tap.ibm.com/weblogs/page/kara@ca.ibm.com
Andrzej Zydron
<azydron@xml-intl
.com> To
Kara Warburton/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
05/09/2007 04:58 cc
PM
Subject
Re: [dita-translation] Re:
Introduction of <surface-form> to
the acronym proposal
Hi Kara,
Looks like I dropped off the trailing 's', please try:
http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/TranslationSubcommittee/Acronyms
Best Regards,
AZ
Kara Warburton wrote:
> Hi Andrzej,
>
> The link doesn't work.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Kara Warburton
> IBM LanguageWare & Terminology
> Team Lead, Language & Data Integration
> 905-413-2170
>
> IBM terminology: http://w3.ibm.com/standards/terminology
> LanguageWare: http://languageware.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/
> My blog: http://blogs.tap.ibm.com/weblogs/page/kara@ca.ibm.com
>
>
>
> Andrzej Zydron -
> XML-INTL
> <azydron@xml-intl
To
> .com> JoAnn Hackos
> <joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com>
> 03/09/2007 10:48
cc
> AM Deborah_Pickett@moldflow.com,
>
dita-translation@lists.oasis-open.o
> rg, bhertz@sdl.com, Bryan Schnabel
> <bryan.s.schnabel@tek.com>,
> charles_pau@us.ibm.com,
> christian.lieske@sap.com,
> dpooley@sdl.com,
> esrig-ia@esrig.com,
fsasaki@w3.org,
> rfletcher@sdl.com,
> mambrose@sdl.com, ishida@w3.org,
>
tony.jewtushenko@productinnovator.c
> om, Kara
> Warburton/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA,
> ysavourel@translate.com
>
Subject
> Re: [dita-translation] Re:
> Introduction of <surface-form> to
> the acronym proposal
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi JoAnn,
>
> I have updated the 'Longer description' of the acronym proposal to
reflect
> Deborah's suggestion that we should spell out the exclusion of other
forms
> of abbreviation:
>
> http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/TranslationSubcommittee/Acronym
>
> Best Regards,
>
> AZ
>
>
> JoAnn Hackos wrote:
> Hello Deborah,
> The recommendation to use <keyword> in the acronym proposal came
from
> Robert Anderson. Perhaps (if Robert is back from holiday), he can
> comment on the reasons for his recommendation. We have not
discussed
> using <term>
>
> Thanks for your input.
> JoAnn
>
>
>
> JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD
> President
> Comtech Services, Inc.
> 710 Kipling Street, Suite 400
> Denver CO 80215
> 303-232-7586
> joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Deborah_Pickett@moldflow.com [
> mailto:Deborah_Pickett@moldflow.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 5:30 PM
> To: Andrzej Zydron
> Cc: bhertz@sdl.com; bryan.s.schnabel@tek.com;
charles_pau@us.ibm.com;
> christian.lieske@sap.com; DITA Translation SC; dpooley@sdl.com;
> dschell@us.ibm.com; fsasaki@w3.org; Gershon L Joseph;
> Howard.Schwartz@trados.com; ishida@w3.org; Jennifer Linton; Kara
> Warburton; mambrose@sdl.com; nick@salftrans.co.uk;
pcarey@lexmark.com
> ; rfletcher@sdl.com; Sukumar.Munshi@lionbridge.com;
> tony.jewtushenko@productinnovator.com; ysavourel@translate.com
> Subject: Re: [dita-translation] Re: Introduction of <surface-form>
to
> the acronym proposal
>
>
> Andrzej Zydron <azydron@xml-intl.com> wrote on 23/08/2007 12:09:10
> AM:
> > http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/TranslationSubcommittee/Acronyms
>
> It's looking good. I've got a couple of comments on the current
> draft. (I'm sorry I can't raise these personally at the conference
> call, but it's at 1 am for me.)
>
> 1. Kara raised the good point about whether to use <term> or
> <keyword> as the specialization base. Here are the descriptions of
> both elements from the DITA 1.1 language spec:
>
> -----
>
> keyword
>
> The <keyword> element identifies a keyword or token, such as a
single
> value from an enumerated list, the name of a command or parameter,
> product name, or a lookup key for a message.
>
> "Keyword" means any text that has a unique or key-like value. For
> example, a product name. Where there is a element that has a better
> meaning for what you are describing, use that element. The keyword
> element is a generic element; use it when no other element applies.
> The keyword element can also be used to contain reusable text.
>
> -----
>
> term
>
> The <term> element identifies words that may have or require
extended
> definitions or explanations. In future development of DITA, for
> example, terms might provide associative linking to matching
glossary
> entries.
>
> -----
>
> It looks to me that <term> is a closer match.
>
> 2. Even though this proposal deliberately avoids talking about
> abbreviations (that aren't acronyms), we should assume that users
> aren't going to make the distinction, and that they will use this
> feature for their abbreviations too. The "scope" section of the
> proposal should state that the proposal is not intended to cover
> non-acronym abbreviations, and why. (I assume that capitalization
at
> the start of a sentence is one of the aspects. I had a go at a
> proposal for a solution to the capitalization issue, and it got so
> hairy that I doubt it would ever pass the TC vote. If anyone wants
a
> copy for posterity or humour value, call me.)
>
> --
> Deborah Pickett
> Information Architect, Moldflow Corporation, Melbourne
> Deborah_Pickett@moldflow.com
>
>
>
> > Kara Warburton wrote:
> > > Hi everyone,
> > >
> > > I have just returned from a business trip... sorry for being
> unable to
> > > comment on the proposals or attend the meetings in recent
weeks.
> > >
> > > I would like to make a few comments on the proposal....
> > >
> > > 1. We still have not addressed the situation of abbreviations
> that are NOT
> > > acronyms, such as "abend" for "abnormal end of task". These
also
> have to be
> > > handled similar to acronyms but they need to be marked up with
> their own
> > > element. Marking them with <acronym> would be a mistake.
> > >
> > > 2. There are some ambiguities in the added text from Don...
> although very
> > > helpful I would like to suggest some changes to correct them. A
> few
> > > examples would also help. Please see the attached doc file
which
> has "track
> > > changes" enabled.
> > >
> > > (See attached file: Acronyms_and_translation_kw.doc)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kara Warburton
> > > IBM LanguageWare & Terminology
> > > Team Lead, Language & Data Integration
> > > 905-413-2170
> > >
> > > IBM terminology: http://w3.ibm.com/standards/terminology
> > > LanguageWare: http://languageware.redirect.webahead.ibm.com/
> > > My blog: http://blogs.tap.ibm.com/weblogs/page/kara@ca.ibm.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > > Andrzej Zydron -
>
> > > XML-INTL
>
> > > <azydron@xml-intl
> To
> > > .com> Gershon L Joseph
>
> > > <gershon@tech-tav.com>
>
> > > 14/08/2007 03:10
> cc
> > > PM DITA Translation SC
>
> > > <
> dita-translation@lists.oasis-open.
> > > org>, mambrose@sdl.com,
>
> > > pcarey@lexmark.com,
>
> > > rfletcher@sdl.com,
> bhertz@sdl.com,
> > > ishida@w3.org,
>
> > >
> tony.jewtushenko@productinnovator.c
> > > om,
> christian.lieske@sap.com,
> > >
> jennifer.linton@comtech-serv.com,
> > >
> Sukumar.Munshi@lionbridge.com,
> > > charles_pau@us.ibm.com,
>
> > > dpooley@sdl.com,
>
> > > nick@salftrans.co.uk,
>
> > > fsasaki@w3.org,
>
> > > ysavourel@translate.com,
>
> > > dschell@us.ibm.com,
>
> > >
bryan.s.schnabel@tek.com,
>
> > >
Howard.Schwartz@trados.com
> , Kara
> > >
> Warburton/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
> > >
> Subject
> > > Introduction of
> <surface-form> to
> > > the acronym proposal
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Everyone,
> > >
> > > Subsequent to the TC discussion yesterday I have updated the
> proposal
> > > accordingly:
> > >
> > >
http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/TranslationSubcommittee/Acronyms
> > >
> > > The main point has been the addition of the <surface-form>
> element, and
> > > the modification of the relevant text. I have also copied Don's
> > > excellent 'Acronym and Translation' list into the proposal as
it
> > > defines succinctly the issues involved. I hope we are now very
> close to
> > > full agreement on the acronym proposal.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > > AZ
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > email - azydron@xml-intl.com
> > > smail - c/o Mr. A.Zydron
> > > PO Box 2167
> > > Gerrards Cross
> > > Bucks SL9 8XF
> > > United Kingdom
> > > Mobile +(44) 7966 477 181
> > > FAX +(44) 1753 480 465
> > > www - http://www.xml-intl.com
> > >
> > > This message contains confidential information and is intended
> only
> > > for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee
you
> > > may not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please
> > > notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received
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> > >
> > > (See attached file: azydron.vcf)
> >
> >
> > --
> > email - azydron@xml-intl.com
> > smail - c/o Mr. A.Zydron
> > PO Box 2167
> > Gerrards Cross
> > Bucks SL9 8XF
> > United Kingdom
> > Mobile +(44) 7966 477 181
> > FAX +(44) 1753 480 465
> > www - http://www.xml-intl.com
> >
> > This message contains confidential information and is intended
only
> for
> > the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you may
> not
> > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the
> sender
> > immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake
> and
> > delete this e-mail from your system.
> > E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or
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> as
> > information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed,
> arrive
> > late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore
does
> not
> > accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
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> >
> > [attachment "azydron.vcf" deleted by Deborah A Pickett/MOLDFLOW]
>
>
> --
>
>
> email - azydron@xml-intl.com
> smail - c/o Mr. A.Zydron
> PO Box 2167
> Gerrards Cross
> Bucks SL9 8XF
> United Kingdom
> Mobile +(44) 7966 477 181
> FAX +(44) 1753 480 465
> www - http://www.xml-intl.com
>
> This message contains confidential information and is intended only
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> may not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please
> notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this
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> E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free
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> does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents
> of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If
> verification is required please request a hard-copy version. Unless
> explicitly stated otherwise this message is provided for informational
> purposes only and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer.
>
>
>
> (See attached file: azydron.vcf)
--
email - azydron@xml-intl.com
smail - c/o Mr. A.Zydron
PO Box 2167
Gerrards Cross
Bucks SL9 8XF
United Kingdom
Mobile +(44) 7966 477 181
FAX +(44) 1753 480 465
www - http://www.xml-intl.com
This message contains confidential information and is intended only for
the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you may not
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender
immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and
delete this e-mail from your system.
E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as
information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive
late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not
accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this
message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification
is required please request a hard-copy version. Unless explicitly stated
otherwise this message is provided for informational purposes only and
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