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Subject: OASIS DITA Translation Subcommittee-- Agenda 3 March 2008


Hello Translation SC Members,
 
Please find the agenda for the March 3 meeting on the Subcommittee wiki
 
 
I have also copied the agenda below. Please be certain to review the material sent us by Felix Sasaki from the ITS working group. I have also included Andrzej's proposal for the OAXAL TC as an attachment.
 
JoAnn
8:00-8:05 Roll call PDT

1) Roll Call

2) Approve minutes from previous business meeting:

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita-translation/download.php/27200/080204TranslationSCminutes.txt

3) Review open action items

3.1 ACTION: Gershon to investigate whether he can use a client's samples.

  • Gershon will assemble all the examples into the template for the TC; need to add the examples to the Multilanguage Best Practice. CONTINUED. Awaiting legal OK; Gershon is selecting items for use in the Best Practice. Decision to submit the BP to the TC for review without these items and we'll update them after Gershon gets approval from his client, since it's going to take a while.

3.2 ACTION: Rodolfo and Bryan Schnabel will continue to work on the Best Practice for XLIFF

CONTINUED.

3.3 ACTION: JoAnn will contact Richard Ischida to get clarification on the

  • need for a pronunciation element or attribute for the acronym proposal.

    IN PROGRESS -- note sent to Richard. JoAnn raised the issue at the OASIS Symposium with the Accessibility working group headed by Peter Brunet from IBM. They are working on Accessibility for ODF. Suggested that DITA be included in the accessibility discussions. No response as yet.

Business:

4.1 Report on the status of the conref and indexing best practices in the DITA TC.

4.2 Gershon report on the status of the Multilanguage Best Practice final format

4.3 Discussion of an acronym/glossary best practice document.

4.4 Discussion of the OAXAL TC charter and membership

4.5 Discussion of information from Felix Sasaki

The Internationalization Tag Set (ITS) Working Group has published a Group Note of Best Practices for XML Internationalization. This document provides a set of guidelines for developing XML documents and schemas that are internationalized properly. Following the best practices describes here allow both the developer of XML applications, as well as the author of XML content to create material in different languages.

http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-xml-i18n-bp-20080213/ http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-xml-i18n-bp-20080213/xml-i18n-bp.pdf (reader-friendly PDF)

Section 5 of the document "ITS Applied to Existing Formats" http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-xml-i18n-bp-20080213/#Modularization contains a section about ITS and DITA http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-xml-i18n-bp-20080213/#dita

Thanks a lot to the people on this list who gave feedback on drafts on this section, and this document in general.

Felix

5) New business:

none

8:50-8:55 Announcements/Opens

8:55 Adjourn

Toll Numbers: USA +1-770-615-1250
Toll-Free Numbers: USA 877-421-0033
Participant Passcode: 610708

ITN: 2-421-0033

In addition, if you are calling from one of these countries, even the toll-based charges should be lower than standard long distance--use whatever works from your location:

Country Toll-free (IBM Pays) Toll (Caller Pays)
Austria +43 179576264
Belgium 0800-7-3026 +32 22006114
Denmark 80-888377 +45 38323070
Finland 0800-914-630 +358 972519061
France 0800-902366 +33 157323040 or  +33 157323041
Germany 0800-181-6323 +49 6951709081
Ireland 1800-558728 +353 16569209
Italy 800-788634 +39 0269430413
Netherlands 0800-022-8558 +31 202008077
Norway 800-18373 +47 24159528
Spain 900-95-1089 +34 912754171
Sweden 020-799414 +46 850163259
Switzerland 0800-564-331 +41 44654562
United Kingdom 0808-234-1969 +44 2070260533
USA 877-421-0033 770-615-1250

 

JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD
President
Comtech Services, Inc.
710 Kipling Street, Suite 400
Denver CO 80215
303-232-7586
joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com

 

 
DITA Translation Subcommittee Meeting Minutes: 4 February 2007

Chaired by JoAnn Hackos <joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com>
Minutes recorded by Gershon Joseph <gershon@tech-tav.com>


The DITA Translation Subcommittee met on Monday 4 February 2007
at 8:00 PT for 60 minutes.

1)  Roll Call

    Present: 
        JoAnn Hackos (chair)
        Gershon Joseph
        Don Day
        Robert Anderson
        Rodolfo Raya
        Andrzej Zydron
        Kara Warburton
        Jeff Ogden

    Regrets:
        Nick Rosenthal
        
2)  Accept Minutes from previous business meeting

    Accepted by acclamation.
 
3)  New Business:

    1.  Discuss changes to glossary proposal to accomodate acronyms
     
        Gershon raised concerns about users' ability to work it. It's very
        complex.
        
        Rodolfo: The elements are fine, but the mixture of terminology management 
        is an issue.
        
        Don suggested a best practice for translating acronyms.
        
        Robert: With either the original proposal or this new combined one, 99% 
        of the time authors will be dealing with the inline <abbreviated-term>
        element; the acronyms are a 1-time setup.
        
        Rodolfo: The problem is the use of new glossary markup for supporting 
        terminology databases.
        
        Kara clarified it's not for terminology management. It's to extract 
        information from these glossary elements into other applications like 
        terminology dictionaries; thus parts of speech etc. are necessary.
         
        Rodolfo has concerns that the parts of speech etc. is insufficient -- 
        either we support everything or nothing; but not partially support what 
        terminology databases need.
        
        The SC was informed that Eric and Kara discussed that there is no 
        standard and therefore the standard enumeration is extensible or
        replaceable.
        
        JoAnn: You would need to specialize to extend.
        
        Rodolfo: Give this as an example, not as part of the spec.
        
        Robert: The spec won't have any values as part of the spec.
        
        Jeff: My understanding is that controled values is separate and the DTD 
        declaration has to be liberal so that you can use the Controled Values
        feature to define the enumeration.
        
        JoAnn: If we enumerate values then they have to be there?
        The other issue Robert is referring to is that part of speech changes 
        depending on language. e.g. noun in English could be something else in 
        Spanish.
        
        Rodolfo confirmed this is the case.
        
        JoAnn: That's why we need to be aware of what the translator is expected 
        to do.
        
        Rodolfo confirmed this is beyond what we can expect translators to do.
        
        JoAnn: This proposal has become very complex including acronyms, glossary, 
        terminology and more and Gershon and I are concerned it's too complex 
        for users to handle.
        
        Kara: The list of parts-of-speech values are suggested by studies of 
        industry of what is included in glossaries. As far as translations go, 
        the part of speech can change for some languages, but it's not often 
        this happens. The translator can put a verb in the translation and if 
        they don't change the part of speech it's not going to impact the 
        published content; it will only affect the downstream process if you do 
        terminology management.
        
        Rodolfo: When dealing with acronyms, you don't need a whole set of 
        elements in this proposal.
        The text about the "keeping terminology databases..." use case is listed 
        in the document and not supported by the proposal. In order to do so, 
        they must be clearly defined, which they are not.
        
        Kara: We don't want to overburden the writer with things they don't need. 
        We only want the essential pieces of data they need.
        
        Rodolfo: The use cases and goals of the requirements are not addressed. 
        That's my concern.
        
        The SC confirmed that the acronym part of the proposal is fine; the 
        parts the SC is objecting to is the glossary part.
        
        Don raised a concern that we don't want a proposal that's too defined; 
        we should rather define a more general spec that users can refine 
        down-stream. We're at the point now that we must either accept it as-is 
        in 1.2 or leave it out of 1.2 and go through the design again in the 
        future.
        
        JoAnn ran a straw poll:
        Gershon Joseph : I accept this proposal only with extensive best 
            practice docs; otherwise I reject it.
        Don Day : positive vote
        Robert Anderson : positive vote
        Rodolfo Raya : 1/2 [acronyms] is fine for me; 1/2 is not 
        Andrzej Zydron : I agree with Gershon
        Kara Warburton : positive vote and get specific feedback on problems so 
            that we can address them 
        Jeff Ogden : positive vote

        JoAnn asked if we can confirm the Controled Values feature will be used 
        here for the list of terminology management items.
        
        Rodolfo emphasised it's talking about generating terminology database. 
        This is the issue I have with the current proposal.
        
        Robert: Eric wrote this and he's not familiar with terminology 
        management; so it would be in there by mistake and we must remove such 
        statements from the proposal; they should not go into the spec.
    
        JoAnn asked Rodolfo and other SC members to supply feedback on the spec 
        wording and discuss this issue with Eric and refine the wording.
        
        JoAnn: We can go ahead and vote on this in the TC meeting tomorrow.
        
    2.  Acronym and glossary best practices

        The acronym BP is in process. JoAnn will try to organize a draft BP from 
        the various discussions that have happened.
        
        JoAnn asked Kara to take a stab at the first draft on a BP using glossary 
        for translations.
        
        JoAnn confirmed that these 2 BPs will not be relevant until DITA 1.2 goes 
        out.
        
4)  Returning business:

    4.1 Best practices for TC consideration
    
        1.  Conref

            JoAnn: We want to get the conref best practice on the DITA TC's 
            consideration. Put out URL and let's get this running on the TC.
            
        2.  Indexing
        
            JoAnn sent out 1 small revision on the indexing best practice. A 
            page had a note about a reference to an example that's not 
            referenced.
            
            JoAnn to check.
        
        3.  Multilang
        
            Gershon to check the examples.

5.  Open

    Don asked us to change the week we meet to the other week. Our next meeting 
    will be on 25 Feb.
--- Begin Message ---
Title: Re: Introduction to new OAXAL Technical Committee proposal

Hello JoAnn, all

it would be nice if you could forward this to the dita-translation list
dita-translation@lists.oasis-open.org
since I cannot post directly to the list.

Thank you,

Felix

The Internationalization Tag Set (ITS) Working Group has published a
Group Note of Best Practices for XML Internationalization. This document
provides a set of guidelines for developing XML documents and schemas
that are internationalized properly. Following the best practices
describes here allow both the developer of XML applications, as well as
the author of XML content to create material in different languages.

http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-xml-i18n-bp-20080213/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-xml-i18n-bp-20080213/xml-i18n-bp.pdf
(reader-friendly PDF)

Section 5 of the document "ITS Applied to Existing Formats"
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-xml-i18n-bp-20080213/#Modularization
contains a section about ITS and DITA
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-xml-i18n-bp-20080213/#dita

Thanks a lot to the people on this list who gave feedback on drafts on
this section, and this document in general.

Felix

--- End Message ---


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