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Subject: RE: [dita] Nested Sections
This is a long email but a concrete suggestion follows in the next message. ________________________________ From: Erik Hennum [mailto:ehennum@us.ibm.com] Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:50 PM To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: RE: [dita] Nested Sections > If DITA adds support for extended narrative with division, > statements about those benefits would have to be qualified > with caveats and provisos. Wouldn't that hurt the appeal of DITA? DITA does have support for extended narrative, through topic nesting and through maps. We cannot prevent people from using it incorrectly. I find it strange that people think that the nesting of sections will somehow encourage people to forget their goals with respect to moving to DITA. It's like adopting Java for OOP and then forgetting to use objects. It isn't going to happen much and if it happens it isn't our fault, it is the fault of the people who did not do their information architecting well. If we are to be honest, we already have to make statements about DITA with "caveats and provisos." There are many, many ways to misuse DITA already: * using generic topics when you should use task, * using "ol" when you should use "steps". * Using bold when you should use a semantic element. * using inline links when you should use relationship tables * using out-of-the-box topic-types when you should specialize * using conref when you should use maps * using subtopics when you should use independent topics * etc. Proper DITA use has a learning curve and IMHO, this small change will barely effect that. > Java offers an analogy. Undoubtedly, the Java cultivators considered > whether they should add support for procedural programming. They decided > instead to keep a strong object orientation, and, ultimately, Java > was more successful because of it. I disagree on so many levels that it would double the size of this email to enumerate them all. Nevertheless, I'll point to the stunning failure of other B&D languages[0]: Pascal, Ada, Eiffel versus C and C++. Java married twenty year old programming language ideas with a hundred million dollar marketing budget[1][2]. In my opinion, that's its innovation. Nevertheless, it gives you plenty of room to hang yourself if you wish to. The static function feature _is_ explicit support for procedural programming. "Almost everybody" knows that you shouldn't write Fortran-like code in Java because they are intelligent, knowledgable adults. The same sorts of trustworthy people will use DITA. ;) (I could go on forever, citing other cases where Sun and others have decided that Java programmers need to be given enough rope to hang themselves: [3], [4],) [0] http://computing-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/bondage-and-discipline +language [1] http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-1013860.html [2] http://wired-vig.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,8974,00.html [3] http://java.sun.com/products/javabeans/faq/faq.bridge.html [4] http://www.eclipseplugincentral.com/displayarticle228.html > While I'm delighted and encouraged by the positive comments on > constraints, my thought is that contraints offer fine tuning for > a shared understanding of content expressed by the specialization. > The reason for the hesitation about the recursive <section> > element isn't because of structural issues but, instead, because > recursive sections seem to belong to a fundamentally different > model of content (divided narrative). I disagree that there is typically a correspondance between narrativeness and nesting. Novels tend not to nest much and yet are our canonical form of narrative. Airplane manuals nest a lot and yet are seldom considered narrative. Narrativeness-is driven by dependence of each information object on its predecessors and successors. This can only be reduced by actually rewriting the content. Structural limitations cannot force that rewrite. Nested sections or not, DITA is _technically_ quite appropriate for writing a novel, whether that is our intended usage or not. (especially with subtopics!) I don't see how the proposal of letting sections nest changes anything substantial whatsoever. Paul Prescod
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