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Subject: MEETING MINUTES -- 31 January 2006 -- DITA TECHNICAL COMMITTEE
MEETING MINUTES -- 31 January 2006 -- DITA TECHNICAL COMMITTEE (Minutes taken by Seraphim Larsen <seraphim.l.larsen@intel.com>) Date: Tuesday, 31 January 2006 Time: 08:00am - 09:00am PT DITA Technical Committee website: - Public: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=dita - Members only: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/ - Wiki: http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/ - Roll call - We do have quorum - Review/approve minutes from previous meeting: - http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200601/msg00029.html (Jan 24) - The following snippet should be attributed to Paul Grosso (***** ACTION for Seraphim) - Paul -- As an aside -- how do things get added to this list of issues (such as his graphics issue, which he posted to the TC list)? - Don proposes to accept the minutes as read and amended, JoAnn Hackos seconded, approved by acclamation. - News, events: - Upcoming first meeting for translation liaison discussion - First meeting will be next Tuesday (7 Feb 2006), 8-9 AM PT (same time as DITA TC meeting) -- Don will send out announcement - Don -- Has anyone written any best practices on this (elements in DITA used for translation)? - Chris Wong -- Doesn't have any information on that. - JoAnn Hackos -- Doesn't have anything written. - Robert Anderson -- Robert wrote an article for this for IBM -- see the following URL: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/email/archives/200601/ msg00034.html - Kris Kravogel -- Trados could not distinguish the elements to be translated based only on attributes. But Trados is releasing a new version of the software that is attributes-aware. - JoAnn -- Has heard the same thing. - Prep for conferences starting next month - JoAnn's CMS Conference - JoAnn scheduled a time for the TC to have a meeting, if it materializes - Also have a timeslot blocked out for the DITA TC meeting - Also have a Q&A session scheduled - Also have a TC member dinner scheduled - OASIS Interoperability Symposium - Nancy -- Erik Hennum will be presenting (but he's not present to give details now) - DITA 2006 (Bright Path Solutions) Conference - No comments - Resource: OASIS DITA Wiki - http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/FrontPage - Our previous work on items accepted for DITA 1.1 is here: - http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/AcceptedAndCandidate - Resume review of "left off the list" and unnumbered proposals for 1.1 scope: - http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/OffTheList#preview - Extensibility of DITA through new attributes (continue discussion from last meeting) - COPIED FROM 24 Jan 2006 meeting: - http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200508/msg00065.html - http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200508/msg00069.html and following - Don -- Is there a reason why this is not one of the existing requirements that we've already discussed? Isn't this already covered in the general extensibility of attributes that is covered by another proposal in progress? - Michael -- There was some confusion, because Michael was calling it metadata attributes, and did not refer to all attributes in general. This new proposal is in regard to all attributes in general. - It really comes down to design principles. Inheritance doesn't work with attributes, and to make it work, we need to do a lot of rework. That's possible for profiling attributes, but it's outside of present scope to do it for *all* attributes. General extensibility (being able to specialize *anything*) is going to be really hard to address. - We might be able to handle Paul Prescod's concerns by defining two base class attributes, one for profiling and one for anything, and only allowing specialization off of those two. - Without Paul Prescod, we can't really resolve today. So let's continue here next time. - Discussion continued today (31 Jan 2006) - Michael Priestley (MP) restated and clarified his concerns. - Paul Prescod -- How will it be done for the profiling attribute? In the toolkit, how do you expect to implement it? In the XSLT? As part of the filering process? - MP - The XSLT isn't written. - Don - Should it be an extension to the existing toolkit process? Or something to be implemented in the toolkit later? - MP - It's not an override, it's a change to the spec, so the transforms would need to be modified. You should be able to reference any attribute that is a specialization of a profiling attribute, and you should be able to do profiling off of it. It should also work when the specialized attribute isn't present -- the processing would be rolled up to its ancestors and be processed accordingly. (He gave an example, using "education level" as a specialization of the "audience" attribute".) - The net effect is that if you generalize a document that had specialized attributes in it, it won't break your processing, you will not lose any behavior, it will follow the generalized ancestor processing. - Don - Are you saying, let's go ahead and work this into the TC as a proposal? - MP - No, we're not there yet. He just was clarifying the current proposal (#20). We haven't yet gone to the point of whether we want to do something similar for a new base-class attribute, and general attribute extensibility. - Don - We need to parse this into two requests. - Paul Prescod (PP) - The proposal that MP has made, addresses the vast majority of cases that require extra attributes. - Overall, he feels that the new proposed model goes to great lengths to meet needs that are not very widely needed -- in practice, he never sees the need for general extensibility. But if others see different, then we can live with it. - We can allow the model for generalizing, editing, and respecializing. - He'd advise his customers against that, though, because he doesn't thinkt he authoring tools can maintain structural validity when you have people editing the generalized form. - MP - It would be important mainly for reintegration of information in a wide integration context, when you're trying to pull together content from disperse organizations that are merging (for example). - Thus, it's a feature in anticipation of a requirement. - But it is core to the promise that DITA is making from a business-case perspective. - PP - OK, let's keep looking into it, and in the meantime let's consider MP's proposal as the best approach for now. - He'd suggest rolling the solution into issue #20, or at least having two separate proposals but they need to be closely coordinated. - MP - Agrees that it should be rolled into #20 -- it should be an amendment to #20. - PP - Will also contribute use cases to the new #20. - Styling Options for Conditional Text - http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200508/msg00066.html and following http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200509/msg00025.html - Discussion 31 Jan 2006: - Don - Can this proposal be extended to include print issues, not just online issues? - Paul Prescod (PP) - What is there in the proposal that is considered not print-oriented? - Don - Equivalent indication of revision, between print and online. Online doesn't let you have change bars, for example, so online uses colors instead. - But it seems clear that the main proposal is to allow a broader range of methods for indicating conditional text. - PP - (disagreeing with self?) - Is it in the scope of 1.1 to standardize the ditaval file? He had heard grumblings that it might become standardized (driven by other issues). - MP - Yes, probably does need to be standardized as part of the spec. - PP - Is issue #20 getting too overloaded to also cover this? Should we do a separate proposal to cover it? - MP - Item #20 currently does have that as part of the proposal. - Don - OK, let's move this to the item #20 discussion then. - Don - Formalizing ditaval, then, is part of item #20. - PP - Does anyone feel that we need to include these extra formatting options right off the bat? (he listed several) These help you to see when two or more conditions are applied at the same time. - Alan Houser (AH) - Question on the formatting attributes. Seems like an implementation issue to him. Are we saying that all authoring tools should consistent in the way they present the different text properties? - Don - The author will expect something to occur, based on the values entered. Thus we are trying to drive agreement that implementers should support. - AH - Seems like an implementation detail that should be left up to the authoring tool vendors. - PP - It is more relevant to the authoring tool implementation/interface. But we do need a way to help the authoring tools get consistent results. It helps drive consistency in the publishing process. - Doesn't have a strong feeling that it must be part of the DITA spec, but does hope to see that the tool vendors can agree on the approach. - Alex Povzner - Shouldn't it be handled in the style sheets, if it's just a styling issue? - Chris Wong - ditaval does determine the output content, as well as a suggestion for formatting options. (So, it's not just limited to formatting/appearance). - Don - Is this related to proposal #39? - Robert - Thinks that Erik Hennum wanted to keep the formatting separate. - Don - Should ditafile create any more handles for processing? Maybe we should look at style control to be controlled through an external style sheet? - PP - The policy-based style is an off-the-list item? - PP - Summary - We should standardize ditaval... (couldn't capture all comments) - MP - Can roll this into issue #20. - Don - All the items implied by this particular discussion, then, are to be moved to issue #20. We just moved it into the scope of item #20. - Let's roll up the decisions on the off-the-list items -- ***** ACTION Seraphim and Don to meet and summarize these for a vote. - Next week -- resume with the "Off the List" list - http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/OffTheList - Resume here -- Recognizing DITA Documents <end> ___________________________________________________________ Seraphim Larsen CIG Operations / TPPE Senior Technical Writer Intel Corporation (480) 552-6504 Chandler, AZ The content of this message is my personal opinion only. Although I am an employee of Intel, the statements I make here in no way represent Intel's position on the issue, nor am I authorized to speak on behalf of Intel on this matter. ___________________________________________________________
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