RE: [dita] Translation SC proposals for xml:lang and dir attributes

["Gershon L Joseph" <gershon@tech-tav.com>]

Hi Bruce,

Please see my comments below. 

Best Regards,
Gershon

-----Original Message-----
From: Esrig, Bruce (Bruce) [mailto:esrig@lucent.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 4:54 PM
To: 'gershon@tech-tav.com'
Cc: dita@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [dita] Translation SC proposals for xml:lang and dir attributes

Hi Gershon,

1. After the following sentence in the xml:lang proposal

> Applications that process DITA documents, whether at the authoring,
translation, publishing, or any other stage, should fully support the
Unicode algorithm to correctly implement the script for each language used
in the document. 

Should we cross-reference the dir proposal?

"However, when implementing the language specification features of the
Unicode algorithm, see also the discussion of the dir attribute, where it is
stated that the use of the dir attribute is preferred rather than use of the
special embedded Unicode LTR, RTL, LRO, and RLO characters."

<Gershon>Good idea. Let's discuss this at the TC meeting to see if anyone
has objections...</Gershon>

2. With regard to the following disclaimer in the dir proposal

> Because input is unpredictably dependent on eventual output, it is not
sufficient to apply the "dir" attribute in such a way as to make the XML
appear as it should in an editor.

Are there any provisions to ensure that users will have fall-back methods in
case the use of the dir attribute is not sufficient to achieve proper
processing?

Is the fall-back method to request an upgrade of a processing engine or
browser or other presentation system? Is it intended that using the Unicode
LTR, RTL, LRO, and RLO characters will not be supported as a workaround?
This seems to be the effect of the note to vendors/implementers.

<Gershon>The note on output is essentially a caution to users that they
should check their outputs, since correct markup in the editor does not
always ensure correct rendering of the output. We don't want to suggest
using the Unicode markers as a workaround, though of course this may work
for some tools. Ideally, we'd like to see vendors fully and correctly
supporting the Unicode standards. ("we" being the DITA TC, W3C TCs and
Unicode TCs)</Gershon>

> When reading XML markup that embeds the Unicode Bidirectional markers,
these markers should be replaced with markup when the document is saved.

Would it make sense to permit in the specification that vendors/implementers
may make it possible for authors to explicitly request that the Unicode LTR,
RTL, LRO, and RLO characters are preserved in violation of the recommended
practice? This would be allowed in tools whose output is provided to
applications that do not comply. But a tool would still be out of compliance
with the specification if its output fails to comply with the specification
when the user saves a document without requesting a violation of the
recommended practice.

<Gershon>This part of the spec is a recommendation for best practices, and
not an enforcement. As such, I prefer to leave it as-is, since we're in sync
with the W3C X/HTML standards and the Unicode BIDI spec, which strongly
discourage embedding directional markers. Tools that do embed markers are
still compliant with DITA (and X/HTML and Unicode) specs, but do not
implement BIDI the recommended way.</Gershon>


Best wishes,

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: Gershon L Joseph [mailto:gershon@tech-tav.com]
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 9:30 AM
To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [dita] Translation SC proposals for xml:lang and dir attributes


Hi all,

Today the Translation subcommittee finalized our proposals for the xml:lang
and dir attributes for inclusion in DITA 1.1. Please review these proposals
for discussion and approval during tomorrow's TC meeting.

Best Regards,
Gershon

---
Gershon L Joseph
Member, OASIS DITA and DocBook Technical Committees Director of Technology
and Single Sourcing Tech-Tav Documentation Ltd.
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