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Subject: RE: [dita] Negative values - scoped values


Ultimately, my question is not whether some values have relationships to other values but whether those relationships are best expressed in each document or in a configuration file (schema?) where they can be centrally managed.


From: Michael Priestley [mailto:mpriestl@ca.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:07 AM
To: Esrig, Bruce (Bruce)
Cc: Chris Wong; dita@lists.oasis-open.org; Paul Prescod
Subject: RE: [dita] Negative values - scoped values


The scoped values also allow different kinds of classification: effectively, if one set of values has an "is-a" or "part-of" relationship to another set, it makes sense to express them as a single value, both semantically and for processing reasons.

For example, products have editions - but if you set product="A B C" and edition="2" then it's unclear which product the edition applies to; whereas if we set product="A B/2 C" it becomes much clearer.

Michael Priestley
IBM DITA Architect and Classification Schema PDT Lead
mpriestl@ca.ibm.com
http://dita.xml.org/blog/25



"Esrig, Bruce (Bruce)" <esrig@lucent.com>

04/18/2006 10:57 AM

To
Michael Priestley/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA, Chris Wong <cwong@idiominc.com>
cc
dita@lists.oasis-open.org, Paul Prescod <paul.prescod@blastradius.com>
Subject
RE: [dita] Negative values - scoped values





As a taxonomy enthusiast, I like scoped values. From a logical point of view, scoped values are not necessary if you are only manipulating one value, because you can specify all its qualities in different attributes.
 
If the situation can only be described using two values both of which are scoped, then you need scoped values to avoid unintended combinations.
 
Without scoped values, you can describe items using multiple attributes as in this example:
 
establishment-type="bar hotel" establishment-name="NewYorker Plaza"
 
would have four intepretations
 
bar/NewYorker
bar/Plaza
hotel/NewYorker
hotel/Plaza
 
If you meant to say
 
establishment="bar/NewYorker hotel/Plaza"
 
then you need scoped values.
 
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From:
Michael Priestley [mailto:mpriestl@ca.ibm.com]
Sent:
Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:49 AM
To:
Chris Wong
Cc:
dita@lists.oasis-open.org; Paul Prescod
Subject:
RE: [dita] Negative values


There was a comment submitted to the TC asking for wildcard filtering - I was reluctant to allow full wildcard filtering because of its reliance on informal semantics (eg win* won't match desktopwin, and *win wouldn't match windows but would match notwin).


I thought allowing scoped values - with separate components that have a bit more formal identity - would increase flexibility without sacrificing formality (ie we're still dealing with whole values, even if they're part of a compound).


There was some discussion of this on the dita-users list prior to the comment submission, but I have to admit I don't think we discussed it on the TC list.


Michael Priestley
IBM DITA Architect and Classification Schema PDT Lead
mpriestl@ca.ibm.com
http://dita.xml.org/blog/25


"Chris Wong" <cwong@idiominc.com>

04/18/2006 10:42 AM


To
Michael Priestley/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA, "Paul Prescod" <paul.prescod@blastradius.com>
cc
<dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject
RE: [dita] Negative values







I think he means "scoped values". From your spec:

 

    audience="programmer/database programmer/Java programmer/Web"

 

I'm surprised to see this in the spec too, since I was not aware that there is significant demand for this. Maybe I missed the discussion.

 

Chris



From: Michael Priestley [mailto:mpriestl@ca.ibm.com]
Sent:
Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:24 AM
To:
Paul Prescod
Cc:
dita@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject:
Re: [dita] Negative values



What scope attribute?


Michael Priestley
IBM DITA Architect and Classification Schema PDT Lead
mpriestl@ca.ibm.com
http://dita.xml.org/blog/25

"Paul Prescod" <paul.prescod@blastradius.com>

04/18/2006 10:03 AM


To
<dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
cc
Subject
[dita] Negative values









This document describes negative values:

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/17329/IssueNumber20.ht
ml

It isn't explicit about the semantics of them. For example, it implies
that negative and positive values can be combined in a single attribute
(otherwise why say that the NOT operator only applies to a single
value). But I would have thought that a negation of value A implies
value B by definition. Therefore explicitly stating value B is
redundant.

audience="NOT paul"

Means everybody but paul. Therefore saying "everybody but paul plus
janice" is redundant. In programming language terms:

If Audience!=paul OR audience=janice

Although I am a fan of the goals of this feature, I am not convinced
that we can work out the details in the time we have. Plus I think that
it is a bit of scope creep beyond what the TC agreed to. The same goes
for the scope attribute.

Paul Prescod





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