OASIS Mailing List ArchivesView the OASIS mailing list archive below
or browse/search using MarkMail.

 


Help: OASIS Mailing Lists Help | MarkMail Help

dita message

[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]


Subject: Re: [dita] conditional processing - inheritance case


I apologize, I'll try to stop being so cheeky about the virtues of specialization in future.

It's just that it seems we're overengineering something that should be much simpler - a prime buisness value - for the sake of semantic rigor and imagined use cases - which seem of more dubious value.

What is that value of making webusertype a sub-species of audience - instead of preserving it as audience since the values are the same?
Typically they don't want to store the guest/registered etc. info in the base audience attribute since it becomes confusing for authors

They also add a specialization for webusertype, since otherwise the distinction between audience and jobrole is not intuitive or semantic.
Why not just rename the base audience attribute to "webusertype" for internal business unit use, and transform it to "audience" before generalization?

This is in fact what the DITA architectural spec recommends for people who simply want to change the names of elements and attributes:
While specialization can be used to adapt document types for many different authoring purposes, there are some authoring requirements that cannot be met through specialization - particularly splitting or renaming attributes, and simple renaming of elements. In these cases, where the new document type can be straightforwardly and reliably transformed to a standard document type, the authoring group may be best served by a customized document type that is transformed to a standard document type as part of the publishing pipeline.
So it's okay to use specialization simply to rename an attribute in this case - but not in others?

And since we're on that subject - why isn't it okay to use zero-degree specializations that merely rename elements?

--Dana

Michael Priestley wrote:

In the use case, the business units do add specializations for those other attributes, and one of them is shown in the example. They also add a specialization for webusertype, since otherwise the distinction between audience and jobrole is not intuitive or semantic.

One of the basic promises of specialization is to allow different business units within a company, or different companies within a consortium, to share behaviors and processing at the level that makes sense: so for example, you could have a core set of specializations shared across the company that ensure a base level of consistency, and then allow business units to further specialize from that base. Because of the extension-by-restriction nature of DITA specialization, the business units are not breaking consistency by specializing: they are adding an additional level of consistency, in the same way a business-unit-level style guide could be more specific than a company-wide style guide, but wouldn't contradict the company-wide style guide.

Another example might be a company that has solutions in various industries, and wants to conform to industry-standard specializations in those areas, while still serving up content through a common company portal. For example, if a company has units that do both hardware and software, or programmer solutions and end-user solutions, there may be different specializations that are appropriate for those different industries and audiences.

I hope it's clear that this has nothing to do with political failures. In my personal opinion it would be a political failure to force every part of a large company to use a single DTD with no extensibility for specific industries or domains.

Michael Priestley
IBM DITA Architect and Classification Schema PDT Lead
mpriestl@ca.ibm.com
http://dita.xml.org/blog/25



Dana Spradley <dana.spradley@oracle.com>

04/21/2006 11:55 AM

To
Michael Priestley/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
cc
dita@lists.oasis-open.org, Paul Prescod <paul.prescod@xmetal.com>
Subject
Re: [dita] conditional processing -  inheritance case







Okay, now I get what you meant about consistency Michael.

But isn't this use case a little backwards?

Wouldn't you leave the existing audience values alone, and add specializations for job role, experience level, educational background, etc?

At least, that's what I'd do if I were specializing - so that the existing logic could handle the existing values.

As for the new semantic subcategories...well, the existing logic would have no notion of what to do about them, would it?

I also find something else odd about this use case - indeed, about all similar round-tripping use cases: do that many companies really allow individual business units to go off the reservation that way?

Wouldn't they instead require the units to negotiate a common company-wide approach?

Or is this dedication to round-tripping a way of compensating for the internal political failure of some large corporations to do as much?

--Dana


Michael Priestley wrote:


From my perspective, the intent was always to allow multi-level specialization: props was introduced as an ancestor of the other conditional processing attributes, to unify the conditional processing attribute hierarchy.  But I wasn't clear on that in the feature description, and there was discussion on whether it was necessary. I came up with the following use case to provide at least one scenario in which the multi-level specialization would have actual processing implications, in addition to merely semantic ones.


Michael Priestley
IBM DITA Architect and Classification Schema PDT Lead

mpriestl@ca.ibm.com
http://dita.xml.org/blog/25

Dana Spradley <dana.spradley@oracle.com>

04/20/2006 07:27 PM


To
Michael Priestley/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
cc
Paul Prescod <paul.prescod@xmetal.com>, dita@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject
Re: [dita] conditional processing -  inheritance case









I was lurking for some of the meeting - but must have missed something germane to this discussion.

So you're thinking of extending specialization to all conditional attributes - not just props?


Michael Priestley wrote:


If "webusertype" directly specialized props, then the audience logic for the corporate website would not recognize it as a kind of audience, and would ignore the values in it. Effectively, the corporate web site logic would have to be modified when a business unit or product specialized one of the attributes it uses, instead of automatically recognizing the specialized attribute as one it supports.


This is reasonably parallel to what would happen if, say, there was a company-wide behavior for a phrase tag eg <productname>, that was specialized by some parts of the company to be more specific, eg <serverpackage> vs. <softwarepackage>.  Without specialization, every new tag needs new behavior; with specialization, fall-through processing can be applied where it exists/is appropriate.


Michael Priestley
IBM DITA Architect and Classification Schema PDT Lead

mpriestl@ca.ibm.com
http://dita.xml.org/blog/25
"Paul Prescod" <paul.prescod@xmetal.com>

04/20/2006 06:47 PM


To
Michael Priestley/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA, <dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
cc

Subject
RE: [dita] conditional processing -  inheritance case











I appreciate your effort in working this through. I don't totally understand, however. Could you please outline what in this scenario would work differently if the "webusertype" and "jobrole" attributes directly specialized "props"?



From: Michael Priestley [mailto:mpriestl@ca.ibm.com]
Sent:
Thursday, April 20, 2006 3:15 PM
To:
dita@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject:
[dita] conditional processing - inheritance case



Per a discussion today with Paul Prescod, Erik Hennum, Bruce Esrig, and Eliot Kimber, here's my attempt at describing a scenario which involves more than one level of specialization and takes advantage of inherited processing (ie in which the semantic relationship to the ancestor elements matter). The scenario is entirely made up and not intended to be descriptive of any real company processes, but hopefully still plausible enough to develop an understanding of how the type hierarchy might be useful in the audience case.


- a company website has content delivered from various business units within it


- all content is processed according to audience, and some content is hidden, revealed, or flagged according to:

       - guest user
       - registered user
       - business partner  

       - supplier

       - customer

       - company employee
       - contractor working for the company

- for a lot of the content, this is enough, but some business units have chosen to specialize audience to provide additional kinds of personalization based on job role (manager, programmer, administrator, etc.); experience level (expert user, novice user, etc.;); or educational background (highschool; college/university; masters/phd, etc.); or other purpose. Typically they don't want to store the guest/registered etc. info in the base audience attribute since it becomes confusing for authors. So instead these business units specialize audience to provide a "webusertype" attribute.


- when displaying content, the company website checks the content attributes against the current user:

- if the "audience" attribute evaluates to exclude, the content is excluded

- if any specializations of audience evaluate to exclude, the content is excluded.


For example:

- current user is a registered guest, a business partner, and a supplier

- so we exclude content targetting guests (like invitations to register), customers (like special promotions), or employees


So the following paragraphs are excluded:

<p audience="guest customer">This applies to guest users or to customers</p>

<p webusertype="employee contractor" jobrole="consultant">This applies to employees or contractors who are consultants</p>


The logic would be, as discussed in the phone call, that:

- a ditaval action can target a particular attribute, or an attribute and its children

- when targetting an attribute and its children, the distinction between attributes is still preserved - only one of the child attributes needs to evaluate to exclude for the whole element to be excluded, like webusertype in the example above


Hoping this scenario makes sense. The previous two scenarios I posted for preservation of values during generalization to a particular DTD level could also provide some justification for multi-level specialization. For example, the specialization-unaware tool in the other scenarios might still be aware of the first three levels of specializations in a company (on a per-DTD basis), and only require generalization for specializations that go beyond three levels. In that case, you would not want to generalize all the way to the top and lose attributes unnecessarily - you would want to preserve the attributes you can for whichever specializations the tool supports, and only generalize when the DTD/Schema is unknown to the tool.


Michael Priestley
IBM DITA Architect and Classification Schema PDT Lead

mpriestl@ca.ibm.com
http://dita.xml.org/blog/25


[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]