Re: [dita] 12035 Generic collation element

[Deborah_Pickett@moldflow.com]

Hi Paul,

I think Eliot covered almost everything
that I would have said (for which I offer my thanks).

It probably helps to understand that
I like to plan things in a very bottom-up fashion.  At the moment,
there are few real-world use cases for #12035.  Indexterm sorting
is already taken with <index-sort-as> (and upon which <collate-as>
is modelled), which leaves, presently, sorting of the topics in a glossary
(perhaps the children of a <glossarylist> bookmap element).

Hence the processing expectations in
the scope of DITA 1.2 are very small.  But it won't always be like
that.  The intent of the proposal is to set out a standard, future-proof,
way for authors to define sorting keys where they differ from the visible
text.  The examples in the proposal are indications of possible processing
that might exist one day.

(Note that the proposal currently refers
obliquely to Japanese ruby.  It shouldn't, and this will be taken
out of the next revision as Inappropriate Use of Technology.  However,
the next revision will mention that it is appropriate for a specialization
to declare elements to act as collation keys in the absence of an explicit
<collate-as>, so that when ruby does turn up in DITA, you get sorting
for free.)

-- 
Deborah Pickett
Information Architect, Moldflow Corporation, Melbourne
Deborah_Pickett@moldflow.com

"Grosso, Paul" <pgrosso@ptc.com>

16/08/2007 12:18 AM

To	<dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
cc
Subject	[dita] 12035 Generic collation element

I am going through the remaining 1.2 features trying
to make sure we understand them and their impact.  
As a result, I am sending out several messages, one
for each feature, with various comments in an attempt
to restart conversation on some of these.

Has there been any discussion of this beyond
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200703/msg00015.html

I'm not sure I understand what processing expectations
there are here.  I gather almost any element can have
a <collate-as> child element and that this is supposed
to have some processing expectations.  (Don't know what
happens if there are more than one <collate-as> children,
or if a non-<collate-as> child has, in turn, a <collate-as>
child, and there are probably other such things to consider.)

But then what is supposed to happen?  I know what it means
to have index-sort-as, because I know what it means to create
and sort an index.  But when you put a <collate-as> element
in a title (as in the use case), how am I supposed to know
what this means?  There is no sort processing usually associated
with titles.  And, in the use case, I see the title is a child
of a glossentry, and I'm betting there is some expectation that
the entire glossary is supposed to have its glossentry children
sorted based on the <collate-as> child element of the title
child within the glossentry.  But where in the DITA spec is any
of this processing discussed?

I see mention of sorting tables and lists, but where in the DITA 
spec is sorting of table and lists discussed?

By the way, the time required for this is greatly understated.
I could see spending weeks trying to document this after having
spent weeks trying to understand all the bits and pieces and
special cases involved.

paul