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Subject: RE: [dita] Groups - Proposal #12035: Generic collation element(dita-proposal-collation-newtemplate.html) uploaded


With respect to what should be done, perhaps the proposal needs to say something like:

The collate-as element should be used in determining the collation position of its direct parent whenever its parent is a member of a set of items that are sorted based on their content or other property values. Such sorting is, by its nature, implementation dependent. Typical examples include:

- Sorting topics by their title or short title texts (for example, sorting glossentry topics to create a master glossary in the context of a specific map)
- Sorting tables and figures by title
- Sorting query results by element content or title

Cheers,

E.

----
W. Eliot Kimber
Senior Solutions Architect
Really Strategies, Inc.
512 554 9368


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Grosso, Paul [mailto:pgrosso@ptc.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 9:42 AM
> To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [dita] Groups - Proposal #12035: Generic collation element
> (dita-proposal-collation-newtemplate.html) uploaded
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: deborah_pickett@moldflow.com
> > [mailto:deborah_pickett@moldflow.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, 2007 August 21 0:46
> > To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: [dita] Groups - Proposal #12035: Generic collation
> > element (dita-proposal-collation-newtemplate.html) uploaded
> >
> > HTML version of proposal for reading convenience.
> 
> See also my earlier comments, few of which have been addressed.
> 
> It still doesn't say much about what anyone is supposed to do
> with this new element.  About all it does say is:
> 
>  Toolkits which use strings for collation purposes need to
>  compare the contents of collate-as instead of its container
>  element where it exists....
> 
>  Toolkits will be able to correctly sort glossaries with unusual
>  titles. Japanese users will get more benefit from this feature
>  than others. The index-sort-as element may be unifiable with
>  collate-as.
> 
> (I'll assume by "toolkits" you mean "DITA implementations".)
> 
> That does not say what the user can expect.
> 
> Just what are implementations supposed to do with collate-as?
> DITA doesn't define any DITA markup's processing expectations
> to include sorting except for index processing.  So how does
> a standard-compliant DITA implementation know when there are
> "collation expectations?"  And when can a user expect collate-as
> to do anything in a standard-compliant DITA implementation?
> 
> The text above talks about sorting glossaries, but where in
> the DITA spec do we talk about sorting glossaries?
> 
> Finally, though you say it now "defers to existing elements
> like <index-sort-as> where they exist", the last sentence
> talks about unifying index-sort-as with collate-as.  Unless
> we change our plans for index-sort-as in DITA 1.2 to account
> for collate-as, I don't think it's appropriate for one 1.2
> proposal to conflict with another.  This will just confuse
> everyone--users and implementors--as to how indexing should
> work.
> 
> paul


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