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Subject: Re: [dita] Ramifications of changing an existing namespace

Hi, Mary.

Just to clarify your position, the namespace:
  • May remain buried in the spec
  • May not appear on the cover page
  • May not resolve to a namespace document.
What are the practical implications of your position?
  • May our coverpage NOT include a namespace?
  • May CD 03 NOT include a namespace document?


Kristen James Eberlein
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
Secretary, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Charter member, OASIS DITA Adoption Committee
+1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype)

On 6/25/2010 4:46 PM, Mary McRae wrote:
B207CDAF-55F1-447A-968B-B759C1DC08F9@oasis-open.org" type="cite">Hi everyone,

  Sorry for the delay in getting back to you - the past few days have been very hectic.

  With regard to the namespace issue. While the TC chose to declare an http namespace rather than the prescribed urn namespace in accordance with RFC 3121 (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3121) at the time, but chose not to declare it on the cover page of either the 1.0 or 1.1 version of the DITA specification which therefore resulted in many TC members not being aware that a namespace even existed (see http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/v1.1/OS/archspec.pdf and http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/v1.1/OS/langspec/ditaref-type.html) or for staff to correct the erroneous construction, and since we have never created nor intend to create a dita.oasis-open.org subdomain to support resolution of such a namespace, the namespace: may remain buried in the spec, may not appear on the cover page, and may not resolve to a namespace document.




On Jun 25, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Don Day wrote:

I need to understand where we can move on this issue, Mary. Are you saying that we can't publish and continue to use our existing namespace? The DITA TC's namespace policy is that we are NOT going to break our backwards compatibility promise to our TC constituents and the wider community of adopters worldwide. That is why I am looking for clear approval on the namespace document as submitted so that the DITA 1.2 CD can proceed to Public Review.

"Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?
Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?"
--T.S. Eliot

Mary McRae wrote:
E1DA857A-385D-4659-9A9F-CA5FFE73C60F@oasis-open.org" type="cite">Hi Kristen,

  That isn't OASIS Policy; just sample language used by several TCs. It's up to each TC to decide what their namespace policy is.


On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:10 PM, Kristen James Eberlein wrote:

I'd also argue that to change our existing namespace would be contrary to the spirit of OASIS policy.

If you look at the template for the OASIS namespace document (http://docs.oasis-open.org/templates/namespace.html), you see that it clearly states (emphasis added):

"It is the intent ...  that the namespace URI will not change arbitrarily with each subsequent revision of the corresponding WSDL or XML Schema documents but rather change only when a subsequent revision, published in conjunction with a Committee Draft, results in non-backwardly compatible changes from a previously published Committee Draft."

Changing the DITA namespace just to confirm with the most recent OASIS conventions -- at the expense of breaking backward compatibility with DITA 1.0 and DITA 1.1 -- strikes me as exceedingly arbitrary and in opposition to the principles actually espoused in the DITA namespace template.



Kristen James Eberlein
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
Secretary, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Charter member, OASIS DITA Adoption Committee
www.eberleinconsulting.com <http://www.eberleinconsulting.com/>
+1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype)

On 6/23/2010 2:36 PM, Eliot Kimber wrote:
The namespace cannot be changed because of backward compatibility
requirements in DITA 1.x.

That is, if the namespace were changed, all existing DITA documents and
document types would be broken.

Not to mention software that uses the namespace name in some way (such as to
recognize DITA documents, which is it's purpose).



On 6/23/10 7:26 AM, "Kristen James Eberlein" <kris@eberleinconsulting.com>

Hi, Mary and others.

The namespace http://dita.oasis-open.org/architecture/2005/ is officially part
of the OASIS DITA 1.0 and OASIS DITA 1.1 specifications. See the following
topics in the specifications:
* http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/v1.1/OS/langspec/langref/topic.html
* http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/v1.0/langspec/topic.html
Can someone clearly and thoroughly explain just what the ramifications would
be if we were to change this to align with OASIS's namespace policies?



Kristen James Eberlein
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
Secretary, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Charter member, OASIS DITA Adoption Committee
www.eberleinconsulting.com <http://www.eberleinconsulting.com/>
+1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype)

On 6/23/2010 7:56 AM, Mary McRae wrote:
The namespace http://dita.oasis-open.org/architecture/2005/ is not allowed.
do use a redirect of sorts to deliver the namespace document at the namespace
location, but dita.oasis-open.org <http://dita.oasis-open.org>  is not



On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:45 AM, Don Day wrote:
Is it possible to set a redirect for the location
http://dita.oasis-open.org/architecture/2005/ that simply goes to the
preferred OASIS hosting address? That would seem to be the easiest way
forward and avoids the current case of a 404 return message, which fits my
definition of "the principle of astonishment" that standards usually try to
avoid!  ;-)
Don Day
Grosso, Paul wrote:

We aren't communicating.
I don't know what "it" isn't the issue for you.
I don't know what it means for a namespace to be at a location.
The DITA namespace name is http://dita.oasis-open.org/architecture/2005/.
That is unchangeable.
When someone puts a namespace name into a browser, they are supposed to be
served a namespace document.  That is a recommendation of the W3C Technical
Advisory Group headed by Tim Berners-Lee.  I don't not want to see OASIS
violate this, and I would hope you and the other people who make OASIS
policy [isn't that supposed to be the OASIS members, i.e., us] would not
want to violate this either.
So something needs to be served when
http://dita.oasis-open.org/architecture/2005/ is accessed. The easiest way
to do that is to put something at
http://dita.oasis-open.org/architecture/2005/index.htm. That something can
either be the namespace document or a document that redirects to a copy of
the namespace document.

From: Mary McRae [mailto:mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org]
 Sent: Tuesday, 2010 June 22 21:28
 To: Grosso, Paul
 Cc: Kristen James Eberlein; DITA TC
 Subject: Re: [dita] Re: DITA 1.2, CD 02 submission (DITA1.2-CD02.zip)
Hi Paul,


  No, that's not the issue. OASIS requires all namespaces to live at
http://docs.oasis-open.org/ns/dita/... or
http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/ns. If a namespace was declared prior to
naming guidelines going into effect (which created the explicit 'ns' in the
path) then it must be at http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/...  It can't be
dita.oasis-open.org <http://dita.oasis-open.org/> .




On Jun 21, 2010, at 11:49 PM, Grosso, Paul wrote:




The namespace must live on http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita - it cannot live
at the site of the focus area.


I assume by "namespace" you mean the namespace document.


The namespace name is http://dita.oasis-open.org/architecture/2005/


Since the namespace document has to be returned when one accesses the
namespace name, the namespace document (or perhaps a redirect to it) has to
reside at http://dita.oasis-open.org/architecture/2005/index.htm.



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